Mastering Creative Energy: Interview With Lisa Hopkins on Leadership and Coaching in the Performing Arts

Unlock the secrets to optimizing your creative energy with award-winning communicator and ICF certified professional life coach, Lisa Hopkins. In this exclusive interview hosted by Anna Robb at Stagelync.


Journey with us from Lisa's formative years in Canada, where her mother’s passion for dance sparked her own, to the bustling arts scene of New York City that solidified her career. Lisa’s story is a testament to how early influences and pivotal experiences shape our professional paths, especially in the performing arts.

Discover how energy leadership can transform your personal and professional life. We delve into the concept of "energetic choice" and how blending intellectual and emotional aspects can enhance your presence. Learn the strategies Lisa employs to help high performers adjust their energetic "soundboard" for different situations, and understand the empowering shift from "should" to "could," particularly for women feeling the weight of obligatory duties. This insightful episode provides practical tools for harnessing and managing energy to foster both personal growth and professional excellence.

Lisa also shares her expert insights into coaching high performers, emphasizing the importance of mindset and dismantling limiting beliefs. Hear compelling stories, like that of an actor from Hamilton overcoming pre-show nerves, to illustrate the power of a balanced approach in the entertainment industry. By advocating for slowing down and questioning assumptions, Lisa envisions a future where all team members adapt to each other’s energy, creating a more inclusive and effective working environment. Join us for a transformative conversation that promises to elevate your understanding of energy leadership and coaching in the entertainment world.

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Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:23

We had a whole business model that were coming out of the school, so we became the conduit, and the very same people that said to us you can't do this came to us three years later and said how did you do that? We all have the gift of having a certain amount of energy, and it's how you use that energy that affects how you show up in the world, if that makes sense. And so energy leadership is just that. I mean, it's very, quite, quite in a nutshell is how you lead with your energy.

Lisa Hopkins: 0:58

High performers tend to be surrounded by yes, people, so they like to work with me because I'll challenge them. I'm not afraid to challenge them. I don't care how well known they are, I don't, it doesn't, or what they've done, it means nothing to me. On the other hand, I, you know, I absolutely champion them, and actually one of my criteria for clients is that they inspire me as well. Right, so it's not about I know, because I don't know the answers. You know the answers, I know the answers, you know the answers. I have an expertise in listening and in asking you the right questions and reading you and that kind of a thing.

Anna Robb: 1:37

But it's a co-creation. Welcome to the StageLink podcast. Today we're talking with Lisa Hopkins. Lisa Hopkins is an award-winning communicator and ICF certified professional life coach. Core performance dynamics specialist and energy leadership master practitioner at wide open stages. A creative energy optimizer, lisa specializes in working with creative professionals in the entertainment industry. She's an expert at shifting mindset and energy and using her intuition to tap into her client's highest potential and uncover what is holding them back from leading their creative life.

Anna Robb: 2:09

A passionate artistic professional herself, lisa has over 30 years of experience working in the performing arts industry in New York City as a director, choreographer, producer, writer and dance educator. She is the Communicator Award-winning host of the popular podcast Stop Time, live in the Moment, which is ranked in the top 5% of podcasts worldwide. Her book, the Places when, which is ranked in the top 5% of podcasts worldwide. Her book the Places when there Are Space Cultivating a Life of Creative Possibilities, is scheduled to be released this summer. Lisa, welcome to the show, thank you. Thanks for having me, I should say before we even start. Not only is she a life coach, she's my coach.

Anna Robb: 2:47

Indeed my pleasure and one of the wonderful things we can talk about all of the work that we've done together. But I want to start, because we haven't actually talked about this, I think. Tell us about your relationship to the entertainment industry and how you ended up in the arts.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:05

Oh, yeah, for sure. Um, thank you for asking. I, um, I grew up in Canada and my mother taught me how to dance and she grew up in a very small town in Canada. So I grew up in Toronto. She grew up in Belleville, ontario, which is a very, very small town, and she, um, there was no outlet for her other than teaching, because she would have gone to New York City in a heartbeat and run to Hollywood or something. But you're not allowed to do that in her day.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:36

So she just taught anyone that she hated teaching, to be honest. But she loved dancing, so she would just gather people around. So, naturally, when I came into the fold, I was one of those people. Fortunately, I too did love to dance, so we had a real synergy and so she taught me to dance. She was primarily a tap dancer, but a massive creative choreographer too. She could choreograph anything.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:58

She belonged in MGM and so I grew up with the mentality of, you know, sort of energy, which is which is probably not surprising that I really work in energy now. But what was different about me is I loved to teach and I love to know what I was doing, so we kind of complimented each other. Anyways, fast forward. She was the first one to take me to New York city. Um, she and my dad took me there and I saw chorus line when I was, I don't know, 15 or 14 or something like that. And well, the rest is history in terms of knowing where I wanted to be and, of course, as a Canadian girl, not yet in college or any of that, and I did want to go to college. It was far fetched in the future, but it was my first taste and we would go back regularly. But it was my first taste and we would go back regularly, and she introduced me to the man that later became my mentor when I did move to New York City, phil Black wow, you're so strong or you're so dynamic. He would say you're too strong. So he taught me the whole meaning of shading in my dance and I've carried that with me through my entire life, my career, anyways.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:25

Eventually I did major in dance and in Canada, even though theater and jazz and theater, dance and tap dancing, of course, were really where I lived. I had ballet all the way through, like we all do, but I had never really had a teacher other than my mother and other than Phil, occasionally before I moved to New York and I wanted a degree. So I was going to apply to be a journalist first and I got into journalism school in Canada, but then it was actually my now husband's parents who said don't you love to dance? And I said, well, yeah, but I'm going to dance. And long story short is they said, well, there's an incredible dance program here in Toronto that you could apply to, but it was all modern and ballet, which is not my expertise. So I went to a summer school program. I auditioned, I got in.

Lisa Hopkins: 6:19

Fortunately I was very different and I got to choreograph my own thing. And you know I guess I was different enough own thing, and you know I had, I guess I was different enough, um, and I kind of I went for a few weeks, um, and studied what modern dance really was and got the essence of it that's probably the latent choreography, me at that time. And anyways, I faked my way through and I got a scholarship and I was like, oh my God, uh, so I went and I followed, I followed those seeds and I started a modern dance company then because you couldn't start, you couldn't really get grants to do anything other than, especially not the American art form stuff, which is really what I did. I was doing jazz and tap, but there nobody knew me as that whatsoever. And I became Lisa the modern dancer, which was hilarious, and I started, I know, and so, but I, it was my vehicle for choreography and so I would create and create and create and create and um, up until we actually we were very ballsy.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:18

There were three of us that started the company from the university as an independent study in our fourth year, and they said, no, you can't do it because it's, you know, a lot of arts programs don't like you to to leave the school until you're ready, um, for whatever reason. I think that's changed quite a bit, but I know Juilliard still is a little bit like that, I think. But we said, well, we're going to do it anyways. We'd love to have a credit for it. Uh and, uh and, and we asked the artistic, the guest artist in residence, if he would be our supervisor. And of course everybody revered him and he was from the Limone Company or Louis Falco Company in New York and he was brilliant and he said yes, absolutely. I mean, he loved our spunk. So we got to do it.

Lisa Hopkins: 8:06

And then we kept doing it. We left the university and we started a company, we started a club at school. We raised all the money, then we rented the theater and we did it again our first year out, and then the third year we rented the biggest. We applied to the biggest theater, dance theater it was called Premier Dance Theater at the time in Toronto and we submitted our work and again we got in. But of course we had to raise the money, but we hired the dancers that were still graduating, so we had a whole business model that were coming out of the school, so we became the conduit and the very same people that said to us you can't do this came to us three years later and said how did you do that? Which we thought was pretty cool, but I hit a wall at that point because I had stretched it as far as I could go. The last thing I did was a murder mystery in modern dance that finished with 1920s. I mean, I was stretching the modern dance to really do what I really wanted to do, which was theater and theater, dance and storytelling.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:08

Uh, it was then that I applied for a student visa in, uh, in New York and uh, and went for 10 months and never came back. Wow, that's kind of what happened. Then. I just sort of studied there. I wasn't allowed to work there, so I was not auditioning because I was afraid and and there was all sorts of. I waited for so long for my green card and I got into a tap company. I was able to somehow do that on my student visa At the time. They don't do this anymore, but at the time I don't think I had a social security number. They gave me one as a student, which is the same one that I have now as an American, because I'm a dual citizen now I know. So anyway, so that was interesting, but anyway.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:52

So I was able to do that and so I was in a tap company and toured all over the place and then I was teaching and then everyone just assumed that I had done everything. I was teaching Broadway people and it was funny because they just assumed I didn't pretend that I had done every show and I had which I had not, because actually I wasn't actually really legally to work. So yeah, and and so that was our model. We were always creating stuff. My husband's a composer, he was also from Canada came with me when I got the green card. He got the green card. We started our own company and started writing our own shows and touring them nationally and internationally and that's how we made a living. And yeah, I mean it's a very unusual story, but that's kind of what we did.

Anna Robb: 10:38

We built our own Well, I mean that goes to. It's a testimony to a certain mindset of self-startup, I think, right across your career, of making stuff work for you, over waiting for opportunities to come right. And I think that's an important attitude to take when you're going to work in the arts, because if you are going to wait for the work to come to you, then forget about it right.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:04

Exactly, no, exactly. We were a real catalyst.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:07

It was the same mentor, that, um, that got me. He didn't sponsor me but he got the head of Broadway Dance Center to sponsor me for my green card and that's a longer. That's a longer story which I won't go into, but but that was amazing and I remember him just saying to the guy who did not know me you know you want her to stay in this country. He was, he was so great he was, he was such a wonderful, wonderful man, phil Black, you know, and it wasn't being, he wasn't saying she's the best, it wasn't. I was no diva dancer, I was a decent, good dancer, but I wasn't, you know. I mean, yeah, it was pretty cool yeah.

Anna Robb: 11:42

That's amazing. And so what, what? What made you want to, or drove you into, transitioning into, being a life coach?

Lisa Hopkins: 11:50

Oh, so that for me was a lateral movement. You know, you hear a lot of people saying that. You know they become other things, including this kind of coaching thing, because they want to leave something behind. They weren't happy where they were. I was very happy, you know, with what I was doing, with working with my husband. I was teaching. This is going back now about six years now, when it sort of came into my orbit.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:23

I was on faculty at Pace University in the commercial dance and musical theater program in New York City, loving that, working really with all the professionals. It's amazing. I mean, it was a dream job for teaching. But I had this sense that there was more that I could do. I could do more beyond what I could do in the classroom, in the, as as a storyteller, as a. I had more in me and I just I couldn't always shape it and I was just aware of my own energy and how I could move rooms, how I could. You know, and I was always talking in metaphors in dance class, you know, I mean as a very good teacher, but my students would remind me, yeah, but you would always say, you know, dancing is about the places where there's spaces, literally, like you know, is about the place in between. It's about the journey.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:15

I think I was kind of doing it all along that I started to notice a real dangerous lack of communication amongst young people because of the internet, because of, you know, social media and all of that.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:34

And it scared me because I know what potential they have. And so I got really, really interested in seeing how I could help. And I was going to produce an event. You know, of course, I went to my producer hat, which where I was going to invite, you know, women in leadership and you know women to come in, and it was going to be for mothers and adult daughters, like mothers and daughters, and I had all sorts of and I thought, and I'll incorporate the physical aspect and I'll use some of my theater skills, and then I thought I should get trained too, because you know what I mean. I suddenly was like ping, ping, ping, ping and uh, so I did, I went and did a very intense training which took years. You know, it's sort of, I mean I think it's ongoing, so it wasn't a three week course in life coaching, let me tell you.

Anna Robb: 14:21

Uh you know, I think, life coaching is a tool.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:25

It's a tool, right, it's a skill set. So, yeah, and then. So I went in thinking that I was going to niche out that, but then I realized it's not about niche and again, there's a longer story in that. But during the pandemic, everything became very clear to me, because I had siloed my two worlds, because, no, I'm still this and I'm still that, but I'll never leverage the two. Oh no, which is ridiculous, because it's not leveraging, it's helping, and these are my people. So, yes, I work primarily with creative people and I'm just helping them in a different way. And yeah, so I guess that's the long and short of it.

Anna Robb: 15:09

That's amazing. We've talked a little bit. We've talked a lot about energy leadership, but for those who don't know about energy leadership, how would you give the cliff notes the summary of what energy leadership is?

Lisa Hopkins: 15:23

Everyone is a leader, by choice or by default. And how we lead in the world, we lead with energy, right. So how we show up in the world is an energetic choice. You know, and I have very much a thing that I call energetic choice, which is that, you know, we all have the gift of having a certain amount of energy, and it's how you use that energy that affects how you show up in the world, if that makes sense. And so energy leadership is just that.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:54

I mean, it's very, quite in a nutshell, is how you lead with your energy. And it's not woo-woo energy, right, it's not like okay, it's like I'm going to, I'm sensing into my energy. It's rather tapping into your inherent knowing, but also bringing together head and heart, your intellectual and your artistic, all of it, right. So really sourcing out and recognizing that we are diverse beings, so we're not all one way, right. You and I both have a lot of strengths, right. But if we showed up with that particular strength all the time in every situation, it might not be as effective as maybe using, like my mentor said, a different shade of us, right, shading our movement, not going all in. So I think of it sometimes as a soundboard, right.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:52

Where we have, we have control, we have control of all of it, and we have faders and you don't sometimes. Sometimes you do want something really strong and really loud and powerful and sometimes you just want to, you know, bring it down, and sometimes you want to really blend and mix it, and I think to to recognize that we have all of that in us. That's a lot of the work I do. Is you start to tap into oh, I'm not just this, or I don't have to be just that, I want to be that, or you know, so that we flip into, yeah, how we want to be, who we want to be and be is, you know, we're human beings, right, not human doings. It doesn't matter what you're doing, yeah.

Anna Robb: 17:36

It's how you're being, no, it's, it's good and I, I think that, like that awareness and that consciousness in which you go to work or go to go to be in a social situation or an intro, is, is is an interesting work to to do and um, and then also the, which is what you call me out for all the time, is the unconscious uh and self-talk, or the words that we use, um, that are ingrained in us, and I find that a really fascinating approach.

Anna Robb: 18:04

Do you find that with other clients too, that they have a lot of? You know, I, I as uh, as we've talked about, I often say I have to, and the first thing you say is do you have to or do you want to? You know, and it's, and, and there's a lot, and I think that with, specifically with women, there's a lot of feeling like there needs to be some obligations there, um, that we should question a lot, um, do you find that a lot with other clients too, that there's a lot of ingrained narrative that people um talk, uh, self-talk? I guess, absolutely.

Lisa Hopkins: 18:34

Absolutely, and I tend to be myself a little bit. I'm recognizing now, because sometimes I say things you know and then I'm surprised that people don't see it that way. Right, that was kind of me before I became a life coach. That's where the, the, the training came in handy, where I could translate what I felt like already knew and and and expected and assumed that others did so, when I would say that you know so. So sometimes I even get surprised when I you know, which is why the calling out is great, right, like I have to. Well, you don't have to, nobody has. I mean, I say time and time again, in fact, again before I was a coach, I would say to my students who who worked so hard to get to Pace University, which is so frigging hard to get into, right into the, into the program, and they get there on the first day, and I'd say you don't have to be here, like it's important to know that. And I didn't say it like threatening, like you better, you know you want fame. I mean, it wasn't a Debbie Allen moment, but it was just like to put them in consciousness of saying it's a lot of pressure and it's you ride the roller coaster. It's fun to try to go for it right and to get it and to be passionate and everybody's behind you. And then you get there and you're all, you're on your own, like you know. You've done your posts, you've, you've celebrated everyone's, you know, and everybody's watching you.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:04

And then you, you lose, people lose their. Why they go? They go, wait a second, what? Why? What am I? You know? Because they get caught in the race. They get caught in that race of this is good, you're really talented, you should audition for that. And should you know what I call should right, I just call it could right With shame. So. So when we, when we say to ourselves I should, we're saying yeah, I should, either because we're afraid we're going to miss out on something, ooh, I should do that, or, oh, I should. You know, and it doesn't feel very good. I mean, you see my face, right, and but as soon as you lose the shame, right, the shush part, you go well, I could do that, I could do that. And then, once you get into, I could, then it's like you know, you're living in sort of more in yourself, like I am capable of doing that, but it's not saying I have to do it, or I should do it, but I could do that. Then then you're moving from probability to possibility, right. Then you're in ah, I could do that, and then you can just, but I don't want to, okay. Or I could do that, and actually I really want to do that.

Lisa Hopkins: 21:14

And then when you move to I want, then you're at I want to because you start really getting connected to. I want to because I really like talking to Anna. Right, I mean, tonight I could have said I'm tired, I have to go on this podcast. I have to go because I told Anna that I would be there, have to go on this podcast. I have to go because I told Anna that I would be there, right, and I could push through and show up. And you know, if I show, no, I should go. I should go because it's going to be really embarrassing for her and for me. You know all of these reasons. Again, that could shame me into going. Or I could say, well, actually I really want to go, and why? Then I start saying why do I want to go? And then I have more energy Well, I want to because, well, I like to talk about what I do. I haven't seen her in a while. I want to connect with her.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:00

My energy starts to change and then when I do that, then I start to move to the ultimate choice, right, which is I get to, which is choice with gratitude. So not only do I choose to be here with you, right, I'm grateful for it, and so that's really being in the moment. And see, we all go through those all the time. It's true, like we all feel we all do a lot, and you can easily look at things with these energetic choices.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:28

I can't do that. I can't do anymore. I'm overwhelmed. No, I have to. I'm going to push myself through to I should, because if I don't, I'm a loser to. No, I could, I could, right, and it may. You can feel it dropping away Right and, as you said, it goes into the more conscious right. So the left side of that choice capacitor, where where I should, where it starts to tip is, is the fear-based stuff, right, the less conscious, and then the consciousness just keeps opening up. And when your consciousness is opening up, then all your choice is open. So even if you want to doesn't mean you have to. That's the thing I say. All you asked me like all the time, because I work with very capable people, so do you know what I mean. So they want to do a lot of things they're barely. Are they going where?

Lisa Hopkins: 23:16

are they rarely, are they going? I can't do this. They're going. No, I want to do this. How? They're in that world of how? Not right, and so that's when you really need to access your best energy so that you can figure out and make choices that are smart about how you can most effectively use your energy and what you learn.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:39

And, as you know, I work with people like you that are very successful and high performers right, it's high performance mindset, right, so capable of doing a lot of things, you know, building a bigger impact, all of this kind of stuff, and they're very aware of their kit, their own capabilities, but what they need to learn and what you know, the kind of work we do together, is understanding, again, the diversity of you, of that, just because you can doesn't mean you can't.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:07

And actually, when you let go of your strength, which sometimes can become your weakness, like it did with me and my dance mentor, right, when I was only going pow pow, pow pow he's like, yeah, but where's the pow pow, pow pow, where's the nuance? It's the same in leadership, right, if we're only leading one way, yeah, and again, that's energy leadership, because we're creative people, but that I want to, so then you can go. Well, I really want to. So you're not going to say I can't, you're going to figure out how, okay, well, maybe there's a different way. Like you with your transition, right, I mean a different. How can I play a different role in this capacity and still do what I want to do, right? Not about how can I dim down or how can I put up boundaries, or I mean yes, I mean occasionally that comes up, but mostly it's about how do I use my energy effectively, how can I be as effective in each scenario?

Anna Robb: 25:04

as I know I can be. And now a note from our sponsor. The StageLink podcast is proud to be sponsored by Clearcom. Clearcom is the leader in voice communications for theater and the performing arts. Call your cues with the simplicity and elegance of Clearcom intercom solutions. You can find them at C-L-E-A-R-C-O-Mcom.

Anna Robb: 25:23

Go check them out. No, thank you for sharing that. I think that people will think, oh well, why would you need a coach at any point in your life? Perhaps, but for me I think that it's you know, the capacity to expand beyond what your own parameters and your own mindset that you've built over many years. You know to discuss at that level, to discuss at that level for me always opens doors of like um, opportunity and optimism and hope of, and relaxed. You know, like the. We live in such a fast-paced environment, right, and we're always putting a lot of pressure on ourselves for deliverables and and the innate sort of rewiring of. You know I have to to, I can, or I want to, or I dividing myself, to our legacy creations, which is I'm an executive producer of. You know all of these things require time and energy and effort. You know and uh, and and you have to have a masterclass in your own head about where you put that energy. You know. Yeah.

Anna Robb: 26:52

So tell me about you know for the wider audience, like you know, obviously without divulging any details, but when people come to you for your services from the creative industry, what are they generally looking for? What are they generally struggling with? What kind of people come to you to work with you?

Lisa Hopkins: 27:13

Yeah, I mean it's bespoke to each client, right? I I don't, you know, it's interesting because I'm I'm invitation or referral only. So usually if someone comes to me they've either talked to somebody that's worked with me that they respect right, or they've maybe been part of something or heard me somewhere, you know, and we met and we had a call and so already there's that, that layer. So I'm not sort of one of these coaches who's out there like looking to build a big roster Do you know what I mean? Build roster and stuff. So I literally did it runs, it runs the gamut in a way from sometimes like I think you said it a little earlier sometimes they don't even exactly know, like why. Like I always say that you know they don't sort of necessarily come with I have a problem. Do you know what I mean? And I need you to help me like do a 12-step plan or whatever I mean at all.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:14

One of my clients, for instance, which is really interesting, was a creative, a very, very successful creative as a younger person and doesn't want to do it anymore. Yeah, and so that for me is really fun because she's a blank slate, like literally, but it's interesting because it starts to unfold into thinking. You know, there's a thinking there that comes in which is I've left that kind of like what I had. I've left that. Therefore, I'm not connecting it to what I'm going to create here, not connecting it to what I'm going to create here and what she's learning is actually actually it's all, it's all part of you. It doesn't mean, you know, it might manifest in a different way. So, so that's something that's growing and whatever she, you know, develops out of that, who knows? But it'll be really exciting. So so, you know, some others come from.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:12

I mean, I've had, I mean there are specific problems during the journey sometimes, but often I say to my clients, as you, as you all know, that they come in there. Sometimes it's more. How do I say this? I'm a trusted advisor to a certain extent. Right, high performers tend to be surrounded by, yes, people. So they like to work with me because I'll challenge them. I'm not afraid to challenge them. I don't care how well known they are, I don't, it doesn't, or what they've done, it means nothing to me. On the other hand, I, you know, I absolutely champion them and actually one of my criteria for clients is that they inspire me as well. Right, so it's not about I know cause I don't know the answers. You know the answers. I have an expertise in you know, in listening and in asking you the right questions and and and reading you and that kind of a thing. But it's a co-creation. So, yes, there there are lots of sort of typical things. It all it always comes down to mindset Um on the podcast those are basically conversations, those are basically coaching conversations and uh, most recently, uh, on my most recent episode, I was speaking with um and you can listen to it if you want.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:28

You'll get a good sense. But the gentleman that's playing, uh, he's in Hamilton, he's starring in Hamilton on Broadway and he was sharing on the podcast that. You know he gets really nervous. Still, he's done it for six years. He gets really nervous leading role.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:48

Before he goes on that he's going to like forget his lines or crack or whatever, and he's brilliant. I mean he's, you know, and he goes. But I conquer it and I go out there and it's great. And um, and I sort of said to him that's cool, I mean that's a, that's a great tool. Obviously it works for you. And I said, have you ever thought about that? Now you have a limiting belief that if you don't do that, that you're going to fail.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:09

He goes, well, you know, and just like you kind of unpack that Like cause no one's ever. He was like, oh my God, you know, and I said, no, I mean, we start to build these things Cause. He was like really like, and it's great, and I figured out how to get through it and I said, what if you, what if you didn't, what if you didn't feel like you had to conquer? He's like, well, I've never really tried. That that's what works. And I go, yeah, it works, but you don't know what else works because you always do that, you know.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:42

So it's that kind of a thing where where you sort of I, I, I really sort of listen, and the other thing that my favorite thing about coaching is that a, I don't get into your story, so I'm, I'm not, I'm not right, so I'm not kind of going, oh yeah, me too, you know, just cause I'm in the arts or whatever, unless, unless someone asks me, can you please put on your consulting hat, you as the artist, or whatever, what, what do you think?

Lisa Hopkins: 32:06

Of course, right, when you, you build the relationship, but but, um, what I love is that it's the client's agenda and that you know I always ask for permission and that I am completely, completely unattached to what it's supposed to be Like. I always and I try to teach that to my clients I said if I was worried about giving you a good session, then that's my ego, that's actually me worrying about me, because my job is just to focus on you and do what I do, and what we co-create out of that is what we co-create out of that, right, and to trust that. Yeah, so it's, uh, it's. It's always different, uh, people come in with with something that's top of mind for them because that's their context. So I'll always say what, what do you need today? Or you know, where should we begin? What's top of mind, but it inevitably leads somewhere else, and I think for me that's the definition of holistic, because the way we do one thing is the way we do everything.

Anna Robb: 33:06

Look, oh my God, you just said two things that I think really resonate with me from when I used to teach yoga, you know, because I used to do that for a period of time no time in my life right now for that.

Anna Robb: 33:18

But when I did do that, there was no use coming up with a plan of what the yoga, because I used to teach it at the show that I used to work on after the show. So how the performers showed up to the yoga class was different every time. Sometimes they were exhausted, sometimes they were energized, sometimes they were pissed off, and so, watching their energy, I would do the class that fit the way that they were. And you come as you are, and I used to say that to them as well. It's like how you show up to the mat is how you show up to the world, right, and?

Anna Robb: 33:57

And what's beautiful about watching or teaching people? Yoga is you again. Like you, you learn as much as you do when you teach, because you're learning what those are, that person's limitations are, what frustrates them, how they move their body and how they work their body on the mat pretty much tells me everything about them, right? Yep, which is such a fascinating thing. You know you're not just teaching, they're just they're revealing themselves to you, and that I don't think the coaching thing is the same thing when we go into.

Anna Robb: 34:28

And the other beautiful parallel is like you go to a yoga session and you come out with a different energy, and when we do a coaching session, I'll come in slightly agitated about the day and then at the end of the session I will have let that go, whatever that was. You know, because I'm looking at it from a different perspective, I'm taking a different energy and I think that, you know, as a person who's committed to growth and you are like this too it's just that's a never ending journey and I find that really fascinating. I think that there's so much human potential and I think that we limit ourselves if we don't continue to grow and think about expansion in that sense, you know, as a human being. Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:16

You took the words out of my mouth. I mean expansion. That's exactly the reason people, at least the people that come to me they don't need a coach, they want a coach, but they want, they want a partner. I mean it's it's like being part of the team, right? It's like having someone that's really there for you and only for you. You know, not not like a friend, right? Not like a friend who will always try to give you advice and say, oh, you're not feeling well, oh, you know, let me get you a cup of tea. But rather, you know, but, but certainly, that is that is sensitive, obviously, but but that um, obviously, but, but that um is, is there for you because they see your brilliance and they right, and, and yeah, and, and we'll go with you.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:01

Like you said in the yoga class, we'll, we'll definitely, you know, follow your lead. That's what I mean. It really is the lead of the, of the client. Um, leading and coaching is the number one. Uh, no, can, if you, you can't lead the client, oh, so what you're saying, what you really mean is so, which you should do, like it's like you're not like asking closed ended questions too is is, uh, you know it's not like a rule, but I mean it's kind of a guideline right, because it's never a blocker way. You don don't want to shut it down, you feel good you feel bad.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:39

I always make them say hell yeah, like is it a yes or is it a hell yes, like if you want to do something? Do you know what I mean? And I say that I challenge people who want to work with me. If I have someone that comes to me and says I want to, you know, I really, you know, had an experience and we had a conversation. They'll say to me and says I want to. You know, I really, you know, had an experience and we had a conversation. They'll say to me no, I really, I really want to work with you. You know what's next, or whatever.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:59

And I'll just slow them down and I'll say I just did this very recently. I'll just say, first of all, I, you know, if you want to work with me, you'll end up working with me, but let's just slow this down, right? I mean, at coaching school they'd say get out your credit card, like, and get them to sign there, like. But that's not, that's not what it is. That's just not what it is. So what I will say to my client is look, I don't need another client and in fact, the reason we have this conversation is to see if we're a good fit, because I would not. I would be doing you a disservice if we weren't aligned, and I have said no to people for that reason. But I'll say to them listen, I want to work with you too.

Lisa Hopkins: 37:42

This was a recent person, actually. No, I do have room in my roster and you are the type of person that I would like to work with, but I want you to think about it. And yeah, I want you to think about it. And yeah, I want you to think about it and I want you to. If it's a hell yes, then all I want you to do is to text me hell yes when you're ready. And if you're not ready, if you're not ready, that's okay. And it's so funny because three days went by and I was like, okay, you know, and I have to learn.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:10

I mean, I'm human hardcore but, actually, you know, a couple of hours later, on the third day, I get a text just saying hell, yes, and then just to sort of I'm not even sure what this is. This person really didn't know anything about it. Um, but I'm in and that's the person I like to work with, right.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:28

Let's find out. Yeah, but it's edgy, and I think it needs to be edgy, because there are plenty of people out there who make you feel better and all that. And, as you said, you do feel better when you do this work, but that's not the reason you come is. I want Lisa to make me feel better and that's probably why I became a coach too, and why I'm a really good coach, because I think when I was in the room all the time, I always made people feel better because I'd be dynamic and I'd teach them really fun stuff and I'd go come on, let's go, and like that's. You know, rah, rah, rah. And you know that's just such a small part. I mean, yes, of course I champion my clients, but you know, I challenge them as well, and because no one else, no one else will you know, that's really interesting we always ask the same question at the end of each podcast, which is interesting for you because I think, um, you see a lot of people in the industry.

Anna Robb: 39:28

But I'll start with um, what's your most favorite thing about your job?

Lisa Hopkins: 39:34

definitely the people, the connection and the learning. I think what I like most about it is I would never call it a job either. Isn't that funny, like I just it's. It's something that I feel like I created and crafted. That's why it feels just. It feels just. It feels it does not feel disconnected at all from what I used to do, even though it's not physically the same, and it feels expansive in my brain too, right? So I think a lot of the things that we're going on here now can actually come out in the world in different ways. And now I'm writing, reading, you know, and and talking and speaking, and yeah, but I mean, ultimately, it's absolutely the connection. I mean I get so much joy, as I'm sure you do like with, with podcasting, with talking to people. I mean it's just, it's so fun, yeah absolutely.

Anna Robb: 40:28

I always leave a podcast more pumped than when I walk into it.

Lisa Hopkins: 40:30

Yeah, the connection right, yeah, totally.

Anna Robb: 40:32

Yeah, it's something and it's an injection of enthusiasm for the industry, for me because I always had a hard day at work, or either end. It's like a yoga class Again. I never walk out regretting that I did it. For sure it's great. And from all your discussions with people in the industry, if you could change something about the industry, what would that be?

Lisa Hopkins: 40:58

Oh, wow, that's an interesting question. I would change the speed and the sort of limiting belief that everything has to be quick and decisions have to be quick. I mean I understand time and I understand budget and I mean obviously there are practical things, but it is a mindset and I think it doesn't take long, much longer, to actually just stop for a minute and think about something Like the hell, yes, right to, to, really, because the, the roi on the end of of everything is going to be so much higher when, if, if, you're invested in, in actually listening in, in actually giving people time to think, because what happens with well, with limiting beliefs which we keep talking, coming back to, and this mindset thing of the shoulds and all that is everything we've been taught, and so we almost do it like Pavlov's dogs. When someone says, you know, okay, you know, this is right, they're all cues for us to say, especially in the theater, right, there's just so many you know tropes about places.

Lisa Hopkins: 42:17

Okay, we all know what happens at places, I mean, and obviously they're important, but I don't know, and we all get ready for the you know, for the tech week and everything. I mean. I have one client who just she's been in for years, but, man, whenever tech week's coming up for one of her big projects, it's like, oh no, I'm just going to be and you know, you just buy into that, thinking it's going to be awful and all of that and and I think, yeah, so this. So that's a long answer, but I think the speed and also just the, I think they need. I think we all need to start asking questions about why right and why not as well. I mean, there are great things I think we need to go through and think about ways to be more effective that aren't just about being faster. I think efficiency seems to just mean speed.

Anna Robb: 43:13

Right, and it's not necessarily the case. You know, I have a colleague that I watch who, masterfully, when things get chaotic, I watch him deliberately go down gears and slow down right, and I watch that when everybody starts to get frantic, how he will shift a gear down and slow it all down. And I think it's a masterful approach because it's the only way you can change that energy in the room. And just because you can take a time to make a decision doesn't make it less efficient, right. Yeah.

Anna Robb: 43:48

For me again, it's about balance. Some days you have to shift gears down and some days you have to go up to you know gear five and go hard right.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:58

Oh yeah, oh yeah. And if we can work on our assumptions I think so many of us assume that things are going to be a certain way, and then, particularly when you're on the other side of the table, like, I've been a lot on the other side of the table auditioning people and that kind of a thing more than the other, and I know what that feels like and I always try to tell people you've got to remember that, you know, because there's a 10, I've got to get this job. Man, this is a big movie. You know I'm really going and you're going listen, like you're the expert in you, in you.

Lisa Hopkins: 44:34

The people on the other side of the table want you to be right for the role, or they wouldn't have invited you to do the role. But you can't control what's going to happen. But what you can control is being you and doing your best job. So, yes, do your homework, know your lines, do everything you know how to do, but then just allow yourself to be you. So then the goal becomes to be the best that you can be, and you can always succeed in that. You can always succeed in being your best. But if you attach it to someone else, saying, yeah, you're the best for the role, well then you're setting yourself up for failure Because, at the end of the day, everybody's talented but everybody's not always right for the particular mix or whatever. And I think we have to really understand that. You know, or we get brought up in that cutthroat thing you know, and and then it must be me, I'm not good enough, and that you hear. I mean that's just such an old story, but it's just, it's really ingrained in our industry, I feel you know. So it'd be nice if that went away. So really, it's a lot of mindset. I mean I think I've talked to you about this before is that this kind of work, the work that I do? I have a dream to be able to give access to creative teams and even in the administrative part of the team, all the way down to the performers and the stagehands and the PR people, to have access to this kind of work so that we can have a language to speak to and we can recognize energy in other people and adjust accordingly.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:04

As opposed to typing people right, everything's just, everything's typing Like you know, it's like no, she's, she's that type. No, you know, she's only good at this or she's only good at that, and then we have to prove ourselves, and and so on and so forth. Yeah, I think, I think it's that diversity of thought. I guess the diversity of diversity is definitely what it is. You know what I mean it's like. It's definitely about the multi-layeredness of ourselves and others. That's important.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:35

Yeah, yeah.

Anna Robb: 46:37

Lisa, thank you so much for coming on the StageLink podcast. I've so enjoyed talking to you and catching up with you, so thank you.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:44

Ditto, it was my pleasure, and congratulations. It's great that you're doing this. I'm excited, thank you.