Sammi Cannold: Impact & Essence in Storytelling

Sammi Cannold is a theater, film, and television director who is one of Forbes Magazine's 30 Under 30 in Hollywood & Entertainment, class of 2019, and will make her Broadway debut this fall as director of How to Dance in Ohio at the Belasco Theater.

Our conversation with Sammi takes us on a journey through her approach to directing and the importance she places on historical accuracy. We uncover the influence of a pivotal interaction with Ava's nurse, Maria Alvarez, which has deeply impacted Sammi's understanding and portrayal of her story. We delve into her creative process, discussing the significance of decisions made during that process and the necessity of staying true to the essence of a story - something Sammi excels at.

We also tackle the more serious topics of age, privilege, and access in the industry, discussing the perception of age and how Sammi's approach has evolved with time. She reveals her ambition to direct bigger ceremonies, and the importance of work and play in her life. As we wrap up the conversation, she shares her joy at getting married next summer and leaves us contemplating the idea of making an impact each and every day.

 www.sammicannold.com. @sammi.cannold

Recorded August 8th, 2023

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Chapters

• 0:24 Embracing the Art of Living
• 16:13 Research, Authenticity, and Artistic Integrity
• 30:39 Challenges, Decisions, Future Goals Discussion
• 36:47 Age & Access in the Industry

Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:24

This is the Stop Time podcast. I'm your host, lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking, motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. My next guest is a theater, film and television director who is one of Forbes magazine's 30 under 30 in Hollywood and Entertainment class of 2019. She has worked for CBS, abc, nickelodeon, paramount Plus, cirque du Soleil and TikTok, among others, and also on some of the world's most prestigious venues, including the Kennedy Center, radio City Music Hall and Lincoln Center. Recent theater credits include Evita at American Rep Theater, new York City Center, renton, sunset Boulevard, both at the Kennedy Center, and Carmen at Rose Hall, lincoln Center, which was a New York Times critics pick.

Lisa Hopkins: 1:28

Her first documentary feature film, the Show Must Go On, premiered at Broadway's Majestic Theater and was released worldwide on Apple TV. It examined the resilience of the theater industry in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. Outside of her work in the theater, film and television, she currently serves as chief of staff for Human First Coalition, which is an organization dedicated to providing humanitarian aid in Afghanistan. She holds a BA from Stanford University and an MA from Harvard University. She makes her Broadway directorial debut helming how to Dance in Ohio, which opens very soon at the Alaska Theater this fall. I am so excited, truly, for this conversation today with Sammi Cannold. Welcome, Sammi.

Sammi Cannold: 2:15

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:19

Ditto. Really. Thanks so much for taking the time. You're a busy gal, my pleasure. I spent the morning brushing up on all things, sammy, which was a delight, I have to say. I just want to stop for a moment and acknowledge and celebrate you, not only for everything you've done thus far in your career and in your life, but actually what really stands out to me, and that I'd like to honor you for, is your integrity, thank you, and your honesty and your commitment to what you do.

Sammi Cannold: 3:00

Thank you. That means a lot. It's something that I try to lead with and don't always succeed, but I'm grateful to hear it's reading.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:10

It shines through, I feel it in you. I feel from where I sit and not knowing you, and just yeah, I looked at your credits and I've seen what you've done. Lots of people have done lots of stuff, but what shines through is you and the consistency with which you apply yourself. Where does that come from? Talk to me about that.

Sammi Cannold: 3:31

I think it's. I mean, I would guess that if there's a place that that reads through, it's from the commonality between the kind of work that I like to do personally. But I do try to seek out projects that are a form of advocacy in and of themselves or are projects that are going to have some concrete impact, in terms of whether that's like aid or sort of providing an opportunity for a certain group of people to be seen by the work, or that's actually like concrete, terrible contribution. I just think that as artists we have such large platforms on which to tell stories and be heard and I take that responsibility very seriously and I want to try to choose work that I think will serve that mission.

Lisa Hopkins: 4:27

Yeah, where do you think that comes from, or why is that important to you? It's a good question, I mean.

Sammi Cannold: 4:37

I think that my grandparents were very service-oriented as individuals and I think that it was instilled in me from a very young age that I had a very privileged upbringing and it was my responsibility to pay that forward in some way and took that very seriously. But I also think that it's just sort of it's hard to dissect that it's hard to dissect where something like that comes from, because I think it's just sort of like the way I think, like why wouldn't I want to make an impact if I could? I don't know.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:18

Yeah, that was super interesting.

Sammi Cannold: 5:20

Sorry that's a wishy-washy answer, but I no.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:22

no, it's not, it's not at all.

Sammi Cannold: 5:24

I just always sort of felt that way.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:25

Yeah, no, that's not wishy-washy at all, it's interesting. It sounds like it was modeled and that it was something that was modeled well so that you were easy to. It was easy for you to ascribe to. That it was natural, felt natural.

Sammi Cannold: 5:40

I would think so.

Sammi Cannold: 5:41

I mean it's interesting.

Sammi Cannold: 5:42

I've never really thought about that before, like where does that impulse come from? I mean, of late, a whole other part of my life is sort of aside from theater and film, is working in humanitarian aid in Afghanistan, and I think that when you Because my fiance works in that world and when you have so much exposure to issues that are really life and death, it, I think, impacts how you view the work that you do in another industry, which is not to diminish the work that we do, but to say, okay, there are a lot of people in the world who are working in fields or who are in circumstances that are really consequential in an existential way, and we as artists have the ability to either reflect those stories or to weigh hearts and minds to cause less suffering in the world. And so that is sort of where I've been thinking a lot in the last two years, as I've sort of been exposed to that work more and more, about how I can take that mindset and bring it into theater and take that responsibility really seriously.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:00

Yeah, 100%. Take me back a little bit to your origin story. I find it really interesting to know how you arrived where you are here.

Sammi Cannold: 7:10

Yeah, so I'm very lucky.

Sammi Cannold: 7:12

My mom is a theater producer and film director and my dad's a film producer.

Sammi Cannold: 7:18

So I grew up surrounded by this world and was very intoxicated by it at a very young age and it was sort of assumed that I was gonna go into it, like it was the family business, like if you're born into a farm it's assumed you're gonna take over the farm.

Sammi Cannold: 7:39

That was sort of my experience and I recognize the immense privilege of coming from that background. And I had a brief period of revolt in high school where I was like I'm not gonna do what my parents do. But then I realized it was just sort of where I was heading anyway and I went to school originally for education policy and then about three weeks in I was doing theater extracurricularly in the evenings and I realized I was enjoying that way more than the classes I was taking during the day, and so then I switched my major to theater and haven't really looked back since. And I was very lucky that you know where I went to school at Stanford they had a very robust student theater scene so I was able to direct a lot of productions in college and there were a lot of resources, and so you know two of these productions were in 1700 seat theaters, and so that kind of experience in an academic setting is like totally invaluable, and it sort of allowed me to hit the ground running when I moved from there into the professional.

Lisa Hopkins: 8:51

Did you grow up on the West Coast?

Sammi Cannold: 8:54

No, I grew up in New York and that you know, in the suburbs of the city, so but because my mom worked in theater, we would, you know, be in the city and in rehearsal rooms and in techs, you know, every weekend, and so that exposure was really, really helpful. But then I went to school, out with I love that.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:16

You that when I asked you in the beginning you know why is making impact important to you, or at every level? Well, why wouldn't it be Like it's a wonderful thing to make impact, obviously Right, but it's not even anything that you even questioned. And then it's also interesting that you know you, kind of by rote, had your rebel phase, right, but it sounds like it was in you.

Sammi Cannold: 9:41

You didn't have a choice, even if you right, you kind of yeah yeah, but some people would yeah, yeah, and I mean my brother is not in theater and I think everybody sort of finds their own path, but for me it was very.

Sammi Cannold: 10:01

You know, my parents tell this story of like how when I was a toddler, I used to put on shows, put on shows on the bathroom counter with the little like shampoo bottles that you get in hotels, and you know I had like a collection of like 50 of them and would do, you know like little you know, musicals where I would sing and like move them around. And so I think you know, obviously a lot of that was learned behavior by, you know, sitting in rooms with my mom and watching directors work, and so I understood what a director did at a very young age, which I think most people don't, but some of it, I think is it was just sort of like I don't know. I think like innately, I think a lot in patterns and I think a lot about like physicality and movement, and so like those things sort of came really naturally, whereas like my mom, she's a theater person but she doesn't think physically a lot, which is why she's a producer, not a director.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:03

Interesting, interesting, and do you have a background in physical, like in dance or in any kind of physical, or is it just something? You're just a visceral person?

Sammi Cannold: 11:13

I mean, I took dance as a kid but I guess I wasn't very good at it. But I think that what I mean, more so in terms of physical, is like about how you move people around in space. Like my favorite part of directing is making like a chart of the stage and then drawing where all the actors are gonna be, because I like the puzzle of like how do you see a big group of people in space at any given time, which is why I direct a lot of musicals, because when you're directing like a two-person play, there are only so many options for how you arrange those two people. But when you have 30 people on stage, you can really have a lot of fun with how you storytell through where people are. So maybe it's more spatial than physical spatial.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:02

So you strike me as someone that's very organized, or at least likes to make things organized.

Sammi Cannold: 12:10

I that is part of it, Guilty.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:13

Guilty as well. Like I well it's interesting, because what's the distinction there? Is it that like if someone delivered something to you organized, would that be less appealing to you than if you were given something kind of messy that you got to organize? Which one would excite you more?

Sammi Cannold: 12:32

I think either way.

Sammi Cannold: 12:33

I mean I get like, for example, when someone sends an email chain that has like 10 different thoughts but there are no like headers or like it's not, like you know whatever that, my brain just explodes and I have to like send it back to them and like, okay, here's my like bulleted, but I don't know.

Sammi Cannold: 12:53

I mean, I do think in a very compartmentalized way and I think that I find that to be something that's pretty common for directors of large musicals, at least commercially, because when people who aren't directors or like aren't around directors a lot talk about directing, oftentimes they'll see it as like a one size fits all type of profession and to me, I am not the right person to direct like a two person classical play, because my skill set is not sitting at the table and digging deep into text and, like you know, doing table work for two weeks.

Sammi Cannold: 13:33

My skill set is, in addition to that spatial world, is organizing people and managing people, and I think a lot of that is related to the organization and compartmentalization of how I think. Like I make a lot of spreadsheets, I organize a lot of things, because I think that what a lot of people don't realize is that you know, for Broadway directors, commercial directors, like 70% of the job is sending emails, which is like crazy when you think about it, but it just is what it is, and so you have to be really organizing on top of things, whereas if you're a director of plays, you know, I think that probably shifts to like 40% of the job is sending emails.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:19

Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? Well, I often talk to people about their strengths sometimes being their weaknesses becoming weaknesses, meaning that they default to them because they work. It sounds like that is a strength of yours actually. Yeah, what do you think is on the other side of that strength?

Sammi Cannold: 14:41

I would say probably a lack of patience for disorganization. When things are messy, I get a little overwhelmed and I'm not the most. Or rather, something I've had to work on is becoming patient when things aren't organized.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:59

Well, we could dig in there just for an hour, but I won't.

Sammi Cannold: 15:03

But I think that's true of a lot of things. Like we, you know everybody comes into, because musical theater in particular is such a collaborative art form. We all come in with our various preferences for how things operate, and where I think teams find friction is when the preferences don't align with behaviors.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:22

Totally, totally. What I discovered about you is that research is a really important piece of yours, which makes a lot of sense to me and actually I would love to talk a little bit about. I watched your Broadway TEDx and I love there's so much I love about it. I guess I want to talk to you about your discovery of and I'm paraphrasing, but you said something about you discovered of yourself.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:49

you discovered that facts weren't the most important thing, I think, is what you said, and to me that stood out as something that was a revelation for you, you know, like separate from the other revelations that you made through your research. Talk to me about that when you realize that facts were not the most important thing, and maybe tell us a little bit about what you meant and what the context was.

Sammi Cannold: 16:13

Well, I think that it's originally when I became sort of obsessed with research as part of my practice, so to speak, as a director. It was more in a literal sense of like I want to directly put this thing, this fact that I found into the show, to make it real and like authentic. And then I think what I learned over time was that the research actually, like the bigger value of it, is that if you're really grounded in what the show is actually about, it can free you to dig into the drama of it. And I guess what I mean by that is that, like, there are certainly times where I've made decisions on shows to do something that is not 100% what historically happened. For example, like I directed a show set in Korea, we made the choice that the show wasn't going to be in Korea, you know, but researching the Korean culture and language and context allowed us to make that choice for a reason versus for convenience.

Sammi Cannold: 17:42

And I think that, like, similarly, in the case of something like a Vita you know I've gone to Argentina four times for research I just, you know, think about the real historical context all the time, and it's very easy to sit in rehearsal and be like, well, you know, the mistress didn't go through that door. She went through that door in the apartment, like we know, you know, like where the history tells us so much. Right, when we dig into something like a Vita, and I think that you have to decide as a storyteller, what are the important facts, what's like, what are the hierarchy of facts and what is going to be more about sort of the essence and the respect for the authenticity of the story.

Lisa Hopkins: 18:33

You're speaking about truth, right? You're speaking about art and truth and where they come together right. Yeah, it's a fictional thing that you're creating based on and therefore you are the auteur, right? I mean, you're the you're the yeah, no, I get that 100%.

Sammi Cannold: 18:48

But I think, like one of the examples that I give in that in that TED Talk, is that you know, there's a part of a Vita that depicts voting, and there are some productions of a Vita that depict women voting in that particular election, which is the first election of one, but don't but historically, they were not eligible to vote at that time and or they hadn't won the right to vote yet, and Ava was a major part of not the reason that women ended up getting the right to vote in Argentina. And so I think that to me, that is like an example of a historical fact that we must be faithful to, because if we are not, it doesn't demonstrate the change that this woman affected in terms of women's rights in this country. It sort of it sort of strips that from her. So that's an example of where I think like we must be faithful to it, Whereas you know, she was wearing a blue dress at this event and we put her in green. That I'm a little bit more like, okay.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:02

Yeah, no 100%. And you're right, that was, that was huge, that was really huge. What you pointed out with the voting thing and how you know, I mean, yeah, choreographically it's kind of cool that you know being bang, boom, they're all kind of doing it, boy, girl.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:18

Yeah, lovely, but yeah, no, because, yeah, it makes me think, as a choreographer, that man, like knowing that would inform the choreography and it would be it would. It would enrich the. It would enrich that scene, the voting scene, right where the women can't do it. I mean, my God, what you could create there just physically would be amazing. Yeah, no, totally no, it was super cool. I was, I was really grateful for that. You know to learn that. I mean, I think it was really cool, so thank you for that. The other thing that really stood out to me was the, the energetic exchange that you had with Maria Alvarez. So can you talk a little bit about that and what it meant for you?

Sammi Cannold: 21:07

Sure, of course, when I was in Argentina the second time and I was with a Vida's associate director, rebecca Abricio, and we, because of a number of amazing connectors, got to meet this woman named Maria and Alvarez who was Ava's nurse when she was dying of cancer in 1952. And this woman is in her late 90s now and she's living in a nursing home outside of Buenos Aires and we got to speak to her on that second visit and it was, you know, unbelievable, because you're getting to. You know, this musical depicts this history that you know happened 70 years ago, but to actually get to talk to someone who was there, it's such a rare, amazing thing. And we've actually gotten to go back and visit her two more times and since then and since that TED Talk and she's been very generous and sort of sharing her story with us on film, and because we really just wanted to make sure that everything that she wanted to say was was captured- yeah, yeah, no for sure, and I love the story that you told about the you know.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:27

Do you have any more questions?

Sammi Cannold: 22:30

Yeah, at the very end of our first interview with her, we said you know it's time to wrap up. Thank you so much for your time. And she said oh, do you have any more questions? Because I'm 92 years old and I might die tomorrow, so ask them. I'm sorry, I thought was she's a good sense of humor.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:50

Yeah, no, that's amazing. And so you stayed, it sounds like, and then you did have that energetic exchange that you described, right where you held hands. I think there's a beautiful photograph about that.

Sammi Cannold: 23:00

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:01

Did that I? It's funny because I kind of made a note that you know I think you said something to the effect of you know, even though I'm not a spiritual person per se, right that this was a really, you know, impactful moment, and then I kind of had in my notes I kind of written, then she qualified it with historical. It was really funny. You said spiritual historical moment.

Sammi Cannold: 23:25

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that to me I find deep meaning in history and making connections through history. I think it's less about anything, quote, unquote, spiritual, but I just the way I think.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:44

I love it. It's so interesting, you're so interesting. So do you identify with the Forbes magazines? Like with what do they say? I know you're on that list, which is a great honor. Do you identify with and I kind of looked at you know what that means. They call it a collection of bold risk takers putting a new twist on old tools of the trade. Do you identify with that?

Sammi Cannold: 24:09

Oh, I've never heard that description, that's really cool.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:12

Yeah, no, I looked up there. I'm a bit of research geek myself, huh.

Sammi Cannold: 24:15

That's quite cool, yeah, yeah, I mean that's certainly part of, I guess, what I strive to do.

Sammi Cannold: 24:25

I think a lot of the work that I got to do when I first moved to New York was site-specific, and I think that site-specific musical theater is something that is not a very common art form just because it's really hard and requires a lot of money and resources.

Sammi Cannold: 24:44

And I was lucky to get to work on two site-specific musicals that I think really captured people's attention and interests, and I think that, though that's not the totality of the work that I'm doing now, did speak to sort of pushing at the boundaries of the art form of theater, and I think it was what was sort of excited the Forbes folks initially, among other work that I was trying to do, yeah, so yeah, I mean it is something that you know, I was assistant and associate for the director, Rachel Chappkin, for many years and she said this thing to me that has really stuck with me, which is that if you're going to direct a revival of something which is the majority of what I do, actually that you should always try to say something that hasn't been said before about that piece, which is not to sort of negate the work that has come before, you have to honor and respect and build on that work.

Sammi Cannold: 25:50

It is rather to say, if you're just going to sort of replicate or do a slightly different version of what's come before, you might as well do the original version, because in most cases pieces survive because the original was great. So that's something that I think about a lot with like a piece like Aveda, where you know that the original production is such a North Star for me, and if I wasn't going to say something new, I would just ask could I be the person to sort of replicate you know that production? But I did have an idea for saying something new and that sort of led to you know what we ultimately did.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:26

Yeah, totally, hence the honor and the integrity you know that I mentioned that you lead with. It sounds like again that that's really important to you, to you know, not for the sake of pushing boundaries, but rather for the sake of you being as effective as you can be and using your gifts to elevate an impact.

Sammi Cannold: 26:48

Yeah, Exactly yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:50

Yeah, I see that in you. It's beautiful. So what's your definition of living in the moment?

Sammi Cannold: 26:57

These questions are deep.

Sammi Cannold: 26:58

I don't know that I have one.

Sammi Cannold: 27:02

I guess it's just something that I'm trying to do more of, because I think that the life of a director is necessarily aimed at planning things that are happening in the future.

Sammi Cannold: 27:15

It's not a very, you know, it's not a job that allows you to be that focused only on the here and now, and so it's also something that I think a lot about in terms of the distinction between time as a director, of when you're in a room, versus when you're doing something else, because, in order to make a living in this industry, you have to be working on five, six, seven plus projects at a given time, which doesn't mean that you're in rehearsal for them at a given time, but that you are. You do have a lot of, like you know, plate spinning, and I think that when I'm in rehearsal on one project, I'll often catch myself even when I'm, you know, literally speaking to an actor thinking about what I have to, the email I have to send on the break about another project, and it's distracting, and so I have to train myself to focus better, and so that's what I'm thinking.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:22

Yeah, no for sure. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate that. That's not easy to share, you know. I mean, it says a lot about you because you've got an awareness of it, which is huge, and you don't have to, but it sounds like you'd like to. So there's an awareness that you know that there might be another way, that that might serve me better, right? And I'm curious to know yeah, so why do you think that is like what's? Is that an intuitive hit? Is that an intellectual thing? Is it like an analysis of that's not ideal, or is it sort of a feeling that, oh, this is maybe not the way I want to show up, or what's going on there?

Sammi Cannold: 28:57

I honestly think it's comparative, actually, because when I think about when, when I was in college and I was really working on one production at a time, I remember the feeling of being so obsessed with every detail of it that it allowed me to sort of anticipate problems better. It allowed me to really understand what the other people that I was working with were feeling at a given moment, whereas when you're working on a lot of different things, you can only go so deep with your obsession, which is a blessing and a curse of a busy career. But you know, I do miss the days where I was like 100% obsessed with something and had no distraction to that obsession. And I think that it's the sort of thing where, if you look back at you know the way how Prince directed musicals he only worked on one at a time for the most part.

Sammi Cannold: 29:57

And there's really something to be said for that that I don't think is replicable in our present moment, strictly from a financial perspective. You know, if someone you know, because the timeline of musicals is so different than it used to be, like it used to be, that from start, you know, head to paper to first opening on Broadway, it could be a year and a half, you know now we talk about eight years. So you have to do something else while you're waiting for the writers to, you know, write the next draft or whatever you know. So it's a journey.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:36

Yeah, super, super interesting. What's the hardest thing you've ever done?

Sammi Cannold: 30:45

Well, my immediate answer is a bit of a dark one. My, my, my fiance, was taken hostage by the Taliban and we had to get him out. So that was really hard. I mean both the getting him out and the dealing with that. So no kidding, I have a quick answer.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:07

Wow, wow. What's the easiest thing you've ever done?

Sammi Cannold: 31:13

Um, I don't know. I feel like every like you know, every day you do easy things right.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:21

I don't know.

Sammi Cannold: 31:22

Yeah, I don't know. Oh, that's, that's. That's a harder question than what's the hardest thing you've ever done, because I feel like you know, brushing my teeth in the morning is yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:37

Well, it is funny because often we don't think about, like, when things are going well, we don't often stop to think about them going well until they're not going well and then we go shit, it was going really well. Yeah Well, let me ask you this what's the easiest decision you've ever made? Does that clarify? Does that help?

Sammi Cannold: 32:02

Yes, but I feel like my answer would sort of be the same Like there are easy, like I relish in easy decisions, as someone has to have to make tons of decisions every day.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:11

Yeah.

Sammi Cannold: 32:11

Right, you know, in a given year I think about this a lot, like this year I've been part of the hiring process of probably 300 people and those decisions are huge because you're affecting someone's entire life.

Sammi Cannold: 32:33

you know not to like sell the grand eyes, but you know employment is a really important thing, and so you know it's that sort of Steve Jobs thing of the reason he wore the same outfit every day was to reduce the number of decisions he had to make in a given day. So I love the easy decisions of like all right, am I going to wear this sweater or this sweater? Easy, it's the hard decisions that have a lot of weight that really take me a lot of time.

Lisa Hopkins: 33:09

Yeah, no, 100%. What's one big audacious goal that maybe you haven't put out in the universe yet that you might have? Is there anything kind of mingling in there right now?

Sammi Cannold: 33:21

Hmm, well, this isn't something I haven't necessarily like said before, but I haven't really like taken a lot of action to make it so. But I really want to move more into directing big ceremonies. It's something I'm really excited about, like the Olympic opening ceremonies or like the Paralympic opening ceremonies, things like that, and I think oftentimes when you're in a certain art form, you get on the train of being in that art form and you just do step after step after step of what you think you're supposed to do, versus saying actually there's something over there that's really interesting, and figuring out how to sort of satisfy both interests.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:06

Yeah, oh, my gosh, you'd be so amazing of that too, right? Especially with your love of the shampoo bottles. Yeah, managing all those.

Sammi Cannold: 34:12

Oh, you'd be in heaven. It's the grandeur of it.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:16

yeah, You'd be in heaven. Yeah, oh, that's brilliant. Did you enjoy, like the whole royal, all the ceremony and pompant? Yeah, I bet you would?

Sammi Cannold: 34:24

Yeah, I love that stuff, it's really cool.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:27

It's pretty amazing, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. That's amazing. What do you know will stay true about you, no matter what happens? Hmm.

Sammi Cannold: 34:39

That's interesting, I think, probably work ethic. I work really, really hard, I work really long hours and I enjoy it and I get a lot of joy from my work, and if I go a whole day without like sending an email, I have a small breakdown. So I just can't. Even if, you know, 10 years from now I go to a completely different industry, which you know could happen. I think the desire to work hard is something that would never go away.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:31

Yeah, I believe you Do you. How does play show up for you in your life?

Sammi Cannold: 35:40

I am getting better at that, in the sense that, like, I think I wasn't focused on anything that was quote unquote for the purpose of fun for many, many years, and I think part of that for me is about like having a partner and like when you're constantly with another human, like finding things that are fun is easier because you have someone to sort of like drag you away from the work in a good way, yeah, but I feel like to some extent, like our art form is quite fun, so I find a lot of like quote unquote play in that.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:33

Yeah, no, fair enough Congratulations, by the way. So when's the wedding?

Sammi Cannold: 36:37

date Next summer. Cool, that's exciting.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:42

Yeah, yeah, oh, this is a tricky one. Let's see where you go with this. And what do you? What do you not want people to know about you?

Sammi Cannold: 36:52

Oh gosh. Well, that's like a mind trick of a question, because then you have to say it.

Sammi Cannold: 37:00

You don't have to say it no, no, no, no. Well, I'll say, for many years I didn't want people to know my age, yeah, and now I'm very chill about it and, in fact, like I think it's something that's helped me more than anything. But I think there is a belief that, you know, there's a lack of trust in young people in this industry, which I have, having just been one and like still kind of being one, I actually don't think is necessarily as bad as when, as young get-see people like to think it is, because to me, I interpret that more so as we, something like directing a big $14 million musical is really hard and it's not something that we should graduate college and then be handed the keys to without demonstrating that we have the skill set to handle it. And of course, like you know, privilege plays into that conversation and who's getting the opportunities and all of that. But I do think that, like there and I was one of them there are a lot of like indignant young people saying you know, we're not allowed to do these things when we're young, and I think that, like that's actually an issue with, like, access and pay structures for assistance and associates, not so much the fact that we're not handing heads of department jobs to people with no experience. So I think that it's like a the issue is sort of more nuanced and I think when I was 22, I was like nobody will let me direct a Broadway musical today and it's like, well, yeah, go learn something.

Sammi Cannold: 39:12

So, but now I mean to bring it back to the question. I think that, like I sort of, as a result of that, saw age as a bit of a weakness. I was like if people think I'm older, then they'll let me do these jobs. But like, look at me, I don't look old, unfortunately. So you know, I remember like talking with other sort of young friends and be like should we wear glasses? Will that make us look older? Should we? Should we wear blazers? Will that make us look older? And now I think I actually get certain jobs because I'm young and people want a sort of young take on things for whatever. Whatever that means, yeah, no, that's interesting too.

Lisa Hopkins: 39:56

It's funny, though, right the optics, like, and actually believing that the optics really are the thing, like, oh, if they think I'm older there, but that's not, you know, your experience is still your experience, exactly, exactly.

Lisa Hopkins: 40:07

The same thing works for older people, right? I mean, what about the older people that want to enter the industry, who have a shitload of experience, maybe in other areas that would be brilliant doing it? You're not going to give it to them either until you know they know how to do all the other stuff? I mean, there are skills. There are just skills that you need to learn, right.

Sammi Cannold: 40:24

Right, which I think is about like, highlights the issue with access for positions in which you can learn, yes, yes and and like. That's to me. That's the issue, Not so much that we're not saying you, who just graduated college, come direct this Broadway musical. It's more so that, like I, as a white woman with parents in the industry, was able to become a Broadway associate director when I was 22 years old. So I learned as an assistant, as an associate, how to be a director, and thus now I'm becoming a Broadway director, but that the access to that, that job, is what gave me the skills to be able to have the job I now have, if that makes sense.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:13

It makes a lot of sense. It's your lifelong apprenticeship, basically, yeah, yeah and yes, you're acknowledging that. You know you were lucky that that happened. You know doesn't happen for everybody, but but if it's, if it can, there's no reason why that can't be offered. Right, it sounds like you probably are going to look for opportunities to elevate that. I think I saw you doing something, or at least involved with, or maybe you just shared something going on with, writers in Ukraine. There was something that I saw on your Insta which right fits into that sort of yes, like let's, let's, you know, give these guys at least some opportunities to just start playing in the field. Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:46

Instead of waiting on the sidelines, because there's that other side, which is that when you're ready, and then it's very binary, right, and I think we're talking about that beautiful place in between, where, between here and here, is this incredible place where you know, where it suddenly becomes a synthesis of learning, of connecting, of collaborating and segue. It's a segue as opposed to yeah, no for sure. I'm like all about those kinds of in between places, right, where that's what possibility. Yeah, that's super cool. So how do you want to be remembered?

Sammi Cannold: 42:21

Oh, a little light question. Well, I mean I'm 29. So hopefully I have a lot more time before I have to think in that way. But I want to have made an impact in some way, whatever that means.

Lisa Hopkins: 42:39

Yeah, no for sure. It's funny that you say you know I'm young now, so you know I haven't really thought about it. And it's really funny because this is exactly when, if you think about it, then when you get up in the morning and you remember that you can step like you are doing. You're already doing it, but you know making impact every day if that's your thing, right, do you know what I mean? Because it's between now and then, as opposed to looking back and hoping that I've made an impact just make it today.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:05

That's what you know. Just do it right. I mean, that's yeah, that's it yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get that. Can you finish this phrase? Most people think Sammy is, but the truth is.

Sammi Cannold: 43:18

I would say this is slightly like creative answer, but I think, as a director, part of your job is making sure that any given project that you're working on has the sense that that is, that that project and their work are at the center of your universe and you're prioritizing them. It's sort of like if you have like eight children, you're supposed to like make each child feel like they're the favorite, and so I obviously my collaborators know that I'm working on other projects, but I think that one of the things that I strive to do every day is create the sentiment that your focus is singular, even though it obviously can't be.

Lisa Hopkins: 44:13

Yeah, I love that. So, yeah, so living into sort of creating ease for them to understand that, yeah, even though you realize that it's going to be received in a way from their point of view, right, but oh, it's all us and that's normal, like you said, like a child, but that you know that's not the full truth, because obviously you're not super human. But to really be actually you're kind of speaking about, to be as in the moment as you can with each of your children, I mean, it is kind of what you're talking about, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, so we're going to do a rapid fire. It doesn't have to be rapid, but do you like the idea of a rapid fire? Or sure, okay, oh, yeah, this is it.

Lisa Hopkins: 44:53

And if you don't want to do it rapid no one ever really does but if you want to play, then we'll do it. So I'm just going to say a word and I'm going to say what makes you, and I'm going to say a word and you're going to just say whatever comes to your mind and we'll just go from there. Yeah, so good. So what makes you hungry?

Sammi Cannold: 45:12

Seeing food.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:15

What makes you?

Sammi Cannold: 45:15

sad Afghanistan. I'm very close to that country, and so I spend a lot of time being sad about that.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:23

Yeah, what inspires you? Movies? What frustrates you?

Sammi Cannold: 45:29

Lazy.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:31

Laziness. Did you say yeah, yeah, your own or others Both? Ah, what makes you laugh? A?

Sammi Cannold: 45:41

lot. I like to be a happy, laughing person.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:46

What makes you angry?

Sammi Cannold: 45:51

Lazyness yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:54

Fair enough? And finally, what makes you grateful?

Sammi Cannold: 46:03

Probably my partner most of all.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:06

What are the top three things that have happened so far today?

Sammi Cannold: 46:11

Oh, I went for a walk and I got my inbox to four, which is pretty good, and I'm in Nebraska, so it's an hour earlier, so not much has happened today. I sent some difficult emails that were sort of weighing on me, so that was good.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:36

Oh good to get them go. Yeah, what are?

Sammi Cannold: 46:39

you doing in Nebraska. My parents' family lives out here, and so we spend a lot of time here during the summer and it's very peaceful and quiet, so I work from here.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:49

Oh, lovely. So what's something that you're looking forward to later today, and then what is something that you're looking forward to in the future?

Sammi Cannold: 47:00

Later today we are going to visit a potential venue for our wedding, which will be nice. That's exciting. And then in the future I'm taking one of those. This is a very specific, random thing, but it was just the first thing that came to mind. I'm taking one of those Amtrak, like a partial cross country trains, because I have to go to a friend's wedding in Seattle, so we're going to take a train from Omaha to Sacramento and then Sacramento to Seattle.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:37

Wonderful Fun. Yeah, that will be fun, yeah, amazing.

Sammi Cannold: 47:44

I love that you have the time to do that. I mean, I'm going to be working on the train.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:49

Good for you.

Sammi Cannold: 47:50

Yeah. Good for you, it's a crazy year but much of what's crazy about it I can handle as long as I have Wi-Fi.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:59

Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough, and there's nothing like being on a train working actually Exactly. It's very productive, it really is. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you today. Thank you so much for joining me. Likewise Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's my pleasure I've been speaking today with Sammy Canold. Thanks for listening. Stay safe and healthy, everyone, and remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloists to express their individuality In the moment. I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening.