DeWitt Fleming Jr: Discipline, Love, and Legacy

Tap dance virtuoso DeWitt Fleming Jr. takes center stage in our latest episode, opening up about his dual role as a celebrated performer and a devoted father. With an impressive background featuring iconic productions like "A Wonderful World, the Louis Armstrong Musical," Riverdance, and Cirque du Soleil, DeWitt reveals how his artistry intertwines with his family life. Discover how parenthood fuels his creativity, sharpening his focus and prompting a more selective approach to his career choices. DeWitt's journey is a masterclass in balancing professional ambition with personal fulfillment, offering listeners a candid look at the life of a Broadway star who cherishes his home front just as much as the spotlight.

Join us as we explore the roots of DeWitt's artistic passion, sparked by transformative mentors and experiences that shaped his path. From learning the art of tap at Mary Mama Hatton College to navigating the challenges of performing with Cirque du Soleil, DeWitt shares how enduring friendships and pivotal moments have defined his career. The power of mutual support and respect shines through as he reflects on his journey, underscoring the significance of staying true to oneself amidst external pressures and evolving artistic landscapes.

This episode isn't just about the stage; it's also a heartfelt celebration of life's lessons, from discipline to love and legacy. DeWitt takes us behind the scenes of building a show in Montreal, highlighting the importance of embracing diverse perspectives and maintaining discipline. He shares personal milestones, including the joy of marrying his wife Jenny and the fulfillment found in his family and community. Through honest reflections on artistic challenges and growth, DeWitt invites listeners to embrace mistakes as stepping stones to self-improvement and to cherish the connections that enrich our lives.

If you are enjoying the show please subscribe, share and review! Word of mouth is incredibly impactful and your support is much appreciated!

Chapters

• 0:24 Embracing Art, Family, and Balance
• 16:15 Finding Value in Artistic Development
• 23:01 The Power of Artistic Friendship
• 26:55 Reflections on Discipline, Love, and Legacy
• 39:49 Artistic Challenges and Growth

Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:24

This is the Stop Time Podcast. I'm your host, lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking, motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. My next guest is a true master of rhythm, storytelling and the art of tap dancing. His career spans the stages of Broadway, international tours and collaborations with some of the most iconic names in music Currently starring on Broadway in A Wonderful World, the Louis Armstrong musical.

Lisa Hopkins: 1:05

He not only shines as Lincoln Perry but also serves as the show's tap dance choreographer, bringing the magic of his craft to life and to all of us. From touring with Riverdance and Cirque du Soleil to performing as a soloist with Grammy award-winning artists like Alicia Keys, wynton Marsalis and Bobby McFerrin, his talent and passion have captivated audiences worldwide. His work has been featured on hit shows like Boardwalk Empire and America's Got Talent and in the award-winning documentary Steps of Freedom, the story of Irish dance. He's also made history, recording the first live jazz album featuring tap dancing at Jazz at Lincoln Center's Disease Club. Hailed by the New York Times as a nonstop source of rhythmic variety and surprise. He continues to break boundaries in his art. It is an honor, a distinct honor, to welcome the incomparable DeWitt Fleming Jr to the podcast. Welcome, dewitt.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 2:04

Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:07

Oh, it's my great pleasure. So give me some context. I know you're in the show, ron, okay, so I'm guessing you're in New York, yep.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 2:15

Yep In New York.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:17

What's the rhythm of your day? Like these days.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 2:20

I don't know. I'm figuring that out right now as we speak.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:25

You know, improv is a big part of what we do, right, as as as tap dancers, I'm so curious to know how much of that kind of you know bleeds into your real life.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 2:37

Oh, oh. You know, as artists, you have to improv, and as parents, you have to improv. You know, uh, nothing's perfect, nothing is uh guaranteed is guaranteed. So, yeah, you just got to learn how to you know keep it moving the best you can.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:53

I love that. So how old are your kids?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 2:56

Three and four.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:58

Oh wow, you are busy. Yep, a boy and a girl or two, what have?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 3:05

you got Two girls, two girls.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:08

So what has changed in your life since, in the past three or four years?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 3:12

You know, I always tell people. Somebody told me when I was having kids. They were like I never realized how much time I wasted. And I said what do you mean? They'll say you know, you'll see. And I know exactly what they mean, because the amount of stuff that I get done in a day, that I have to get done in a day, you know I wasn't even doing half of that when I didn't have kids. So it's just to me it's just so impressive. You know how much we're able or capable of doing that we might not allow ourselves to do. So it's pretty cool.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:52

I'm curious to know how does the new role as a dad fit into your role as a provider or even as an ambitious artist? Has that shifted for you at all with that new role?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 4:05

It gives you perspective for you at all. With that new role it gives you perspective and I know I take care of things a lot in a lot greater detail. Now I'm definitely a lot more selective in what I do because naturally I want to do it all. I just find joy in a lot of different things, but now that I have the girls and so many other responsibilities, I have to really be selective because everything that I choose to do potentially is taking away my time with them. So I'm really very selective on what I do and how I do things and also just the perspective of you know. Nowadays everything you do lives on, especially if it's online or anything like that. So I try to be careful and make sure that I'm representing myself in a way that reflects how I want them to live and think and the principles and, you know, things that I want to instill in them. So definitely has changed a lot of things.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:07

You know you're someone who's very passionate, very talented and has pretty much and you can clear this up for me. But just you know, I don't know you personally, but looking at your trajectory, right, you've done a lot. You've done a lot. And it seems like it's pretty consistent and it's pretty varied, like you said. I mean, it's all related but you're not, you're not yeah, you're not like narrowing yourself.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:29

I don't feel like. I feel like you're really expressing all your talents, which is pretty darn exciting, so I just want to honor you for that, first of all.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 5:35

Oh, thank you, Thank you.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:37

No, absolutely, but in terms of like, that you know when. When we're a solo artist, meaning solo like, without a family.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 5:45

Right, right right.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:47

You know it's, it's easy. It's easier. I mean, your criteria is different.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 5:55

You're thinking more about how is this going to help me move forward? Or Absolutely. You know it's the same, again it's the same, but now your drive is a little stronger and again you're just more selective and your, your focus gets a little bit more narrow and a little more fine-tuned. You don't take as many chances as you used to, and when I say take chances, I mean chances on things that aren't closely aligned to what your goals are, what you really see yourself doing, Whereas before you know if I don't have any kids or I'm a single artist, you know I'm out there doing everything.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 6:34

You know somebody say, hey, we got this over here. It might not have anything to do what I'm doing right now, but I'm like, oh, that sounds fun, let's go check it out. And you know, maybe something will come from it in the future. You try to narrow things down a little bit more and sometimes you're sad because it's just fun stuff you want to do. But at the same time you know you, you really have that understanding that, still have that drive, you still have that passion, determination, but you try to get a little bit more focused yeah, and you get more done in the day.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:02

By the sounds of it, that's pretty cool absolutely yeah, yeah so I curious how at all have your goals for your career shifted?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 7:11

You know it's tricky because you know, as artists, you're constantly growing and you're constantly learning. I try not to be too sure of myself. I still try to follow breadcrumbs when I have to and try to acknowledge the places where I'm not as skilled, versed or have experience in. So it's really a balancing act of the two. You do, you know, look for opportunities and ways that you can be more involved than just on the stage and just as a performer, and you try to find out how can I invest in my opportunities instead of just it being one one-off situation or or me just being a part of somebody else's investment or vision. You just try to think of ways that how can I also invest in myself in this opportunity and how can I, you know, make these opportunities go beyond the actual gig or a couple gigs that they are. But with that again, you know, as artists, you're constantly growing, you're constantly learning something new and trying to better yourself. So you know, I definitely try to balance the two and not try to lean any one way too hard.

Lisa Hopkins: 8:27

Yeah, that's amazing. It's kind of I love that connection. It sounds so much more deeply rooted right, so it's like we talk a lot about the way we do things right. We could both be doing the same thing, or you could be doing the same thing in two different ways, right, you could take the gig and have an attitude towards it. Or you can yeah, as you said, invest in it, which I love, that that's such a beautiful way of thinking of it, because you're kind of where can I grow from here?

Lisa Hopkins: 8:55

So the gig is not the thing, it's not the end.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 8:59

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:01

That's. That's pretty cool. So if you were to zoom out right, let's say I don't know, 10 years from now, although your your girls will be teenagers, but let's say they're perfect. Let's say they're perfect.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 9:12

You're not worried about them. You're not worried about that. They're totally right.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:15

So 10 years from now, you're talking to me, You're going, Lisa, I just you know everything since we talked is just phenomenal.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 9:26

What would you be telling me. What would we be celebrating? That's a good question. Hopefully multiple shows I've been choreographing, shows that I've been producing and able to provide opportunities for people, whether it be television, film, theater, dance.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 9:52

So I just want to connect artists with producers and and get together and build something that artists can have ownership in and they can be a mutual benefit from producers, investors and artists, um, so that they both can sustain each other and try to balance the scale so it's not so lopsided. And with that, you know, comes education, for you know both sides. You know education for artists as to you know all the things that it takes to mount and produce and run a show. And from the producers, you know all it takes to be able to perform a show and all of the years of hard work and and finding value in that. So I've always wanted to create a community where you know both can see the value in both sides and see that the work is mutual and to be able to share in those benefits mutually as well. So you know, I'm hoping 10 years from now I'll be closer to that, to where we can all build together and artists can sustain themselves beyond their physical abilities, you know.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:05

What would be the first step towards that, do you think?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 11:20

Mm, hmm, what would be the first step towards that? Do you think artists have more depth and and have the aptitude to do things outside of their art? Um, and to, also, uh, uh, show artists? You know, um, that producers, I guess, can um, relate to them and understand, uh, their needs, um, and that they aren't, they aren't all just there to to use them up and, you know, get money from you know, whatever it is. So, just trying to be an example on both sides and and show each side that the other one is valuable and can be a a ally and an asset, yeah, so just trying to produce things when I can, trying to work with the producers of my show. I'm always trying to work with everybody to not only understand their jobs and what they do, but also to show value beyond what they think and see.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 12:25

So I mean, I think that's the first step for me, and once they say, oh, you know, yeah, I work with DeWitt, he understands what we do, then now they'll look at our other artists hopefully in the same way and not think that, oh, they're just good on the stage yeah so that's you know.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 12:40

I think for me that's the first step yep, no, that I.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:44

I completely that You're talking my language Well, first of all, it's interesting too, because we need to lose the idea of two sides right, because then we start playing those roles. So I hear what you're saying about really integrating. I love that Because I think well, it becomes expected of when we assume you know when we live, when we live, that we assume that a producer is like that.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 13:11

That's what we're going to see Absolutely, and vice versa, about an artist oh, he's a tap dancer.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:16

He's going to be like this oh my. God, If you if you, I can imagine the rooms you walk into people go.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 13:23

Oh, you're a tap dancer.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:24

Okay, right, right. Which is ridiculous but true, and you know, I really do think it's all about communication which is what I'm hearing from you. What I love what you're saying is that it's about not seeing something just as what it is. There's so much more there if you make it Right, if you create it Absolutely, which is amazing.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 13:42

Yeah, that's brilliant. How do you define success? Oh man, you know it changes. It changes Especially now that I have a kid, you know, and I'm married with two kids and making sure they're happy, you know, they're fed, they have everything they need. For me, I'm succeeding because they they are, they are really what's important. You know, at the end of the day, you know, anything can happen to our industry, and if I try to say that I'm unsuccessful because of that, which is something that's out of my control, where does that leave my family? Now I'm in a whole different state where I can't really be the father or the husband I need to be for them. So it's definitely shift. If they're all right and they're safe and healthy, I feel like I'm a success.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:47

Was there a seminal moment when you knew what you wanted to do? Like when you were young, like going way back?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 14:52

You know it's funny because I never thought that I could or would be a performer as a profession. You know, I mean I've been in the arts since I was 12 years old, but you know where I come from. You work hard, pay the bills that's just what you do. So I never had a doubt that that's what I would have to do. And art art was something that I just enjoyed and I was really passionate about.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 15:20

But at no point I can't remember the point where I connected the two together. You know, because even in college, you know you're hustling, doing jobs and stuff like that, and you're still doing what you love, but you know you got to pay the bills, you know. So I can't remember the time when I put the two together and said, oh, I can do this actually for a living and not have to do anything else, or this is what I want to do. I don't know, because I've always been so passionate about it and it brought me joy. Maybe that's why I didn't put it together, because I didn't want to think about it being connected to something that you have to do.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:59

Whether or not it became a career, you would always do. It is what I'm hearing.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 16:03

Oh, absolutely. So it wasn't reliance on that.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:05

but that sort of epiphany that oh wait, I actually could do this and make a living, that's pretty cool.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 16:10

Right, right, right, exactly exactly. Yeah, yeah, love that.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:15

You went to school? Did you go to school for theater or dance, or?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 16:18

Yes, I went to Mary Mama Hatton College for acting.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:21

Oh OK, when did you start learning?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 16:23

tap dance 17 or 17 years old, so I was a senior in high school. I went to Duke Ellington School of the Arts in DC studying acting and we were learning musicals, and so we had to learn how to tap dance. I love it. Yeah, that's where it started.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:44

So who was your first influence?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 16:45

It's all because of my movement teacher. Her name was Karen Daniels and she started teaching me some, you know, steps and you know I've been drumming since I was 12. So rhythm was something that I always enjoyed, so I thought it was cool. But you know, it didn't really, you know, take over me until she took me to see Bringing the Noise, bringing the Funk, okay, and just on so many levels that resonated with me. Because going to our high school we went to see shows all the time and I never saw me on stage, yeah, um, and so that just blew my mind. And I also never saw tap dancing done in that way. So that really sparked something in me. And after that I was hooked. You know, I was in the studio every day. Uh, tony Lambre, may she rest in peace.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 17:40

She was teaching at um, duke Ellington, and had her own dance company and I would sneak down there to take dance classes and ask my theater teachers if I can skip the class because she only came. She only came once a week, so they allowed me to do it, thankfully. And then, you know, she said I need some more guys in week. So they allowed me to do it, thankfully. And then, you know, she said I need some more guys in my company. So she asked me to come join her company. So I got to train with her for about maybe three or four months and then I was off to college.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 18:06

So, you know, as it happens, as an artist, there's so many people along the way that have helped you and inspired you and pulled you to the side, showed you something, you know. But it started with those two women. And Miss Karen Daniels, you know, really was her, because she saw something in me, took me to see that show for free she paid for the ticket, gave me all this footage to watch, you know, and that really set things off for me.

Lisa Hopkins: 18:36

I hear a little bit of a pattern. I'm always listening for patterns. I always find that really interesting. You know how you talked about oh well, I always loved, I always loved, you know, the arts. So I never, never really thought of it as a job. And it's kind of interesting too, because it was a similar thing you were, you were, you know you were acting, so you know and and musicals, but you hadn't seen anything like what Karen showed you.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 18:56

Right, like noise, funk or it done in dance so suddenly there's that pattern again of oh wait, actually I can act and I can dance, and I can sing and I can go Absolutely. Yeah that's true. That's pretty exciting.

Lisa Hopkins: 19:12

I'm guessing that the going to college thing was connected to that. Well, I got to make a living, so maybe I'll teach, or if I have a degree, was that kind of part of the thinking?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 19:38

kind of way of proving yourself. It was a way to to not let your, your surroundings or your circumstances define who you are, you know. So it was a pride thing. Um it it was. It was more attached to that than it was attached to you know, oh, I can go get a degree and teach, or you know, yeah, that never it was. Yeah, it was more of a pride thing and something that for me, to know that that is something that I can do, no matter what or where I come from or what I have. So it was, for me it was. It was that it was more of that.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:07

Were you one of the first in your family, or was it, or was it high held to go to college or oh yeah, absolutely.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 20:13

Um, my mom went to college. She went to Howard University. I think she ended up dropping out a year or two, and my grandparents both graduated from Tuskegee University, where they met. Oh wow, the idea of education was always something in our household for sure. Yeah, so I can't say I was the first, but you know, I definitely wanted to make sure it was something I did.

Lisa Hopkins: 20:43

Yeah, that's pretty cool. I love that. What's something that you know now that you wished you had known then, when you were just starting out?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 20:52

That's a good question, maybe patience. It's hard though. Those questions are hard because it's like I look at, you know, and it's funny because it comes up when I'm, when I'm in the show, because we got a lot of younger dancers in the show and every time I go to one, insert myself to say something, I kind of hold back because I remember myself at that age and that passion and that drive and just everything is so important and just always wanting to be right, you know, and it really builds a certain type of character and it really, you know, you shoot yourself in the foot a lot and all that stuff, but you learn from it, but it really drives you as an artist and makes you really, you know, work on stuff harder and harder.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 21:44

And so I hesitate to say stuff about I wish I would have known this, just because, because I didn't know, I worked so much harder because I didn't know, I worked so much harder and I really, and the mistakes that I made were so much more profound and valuable, because you know, because it hurts, you know it hurts and it stings you and it's just like it really wakes you up and shakes you up a bit. So I hesitate to say that I wish I would have known certain things, because it really made me who I am.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:20

Oh yeah, no, that's very clear. That was very, very clear.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 22:24

I love that.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:25

Well, let me rephrase. Is there something that you right now would like to say to younger self? Not that you wish that they would. Is there something you'd say to younger self?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 22:34

Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:35

Yeah.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 22:36

Oh, absolutely, you know, just to find value in what you do and how you do it and really stick with that and try not to let outside forces or outside influences change who you are or influence you know who you are, how you do things. You know it was hard for me because my way of approach to, you know, dancing in general was not popular at all. You know, there's very few people who ever, you know, I guess, saw value or appreciated the way I dance or my approach, Especially, you know, coming up next to somebody like Jared, you know, who's such an explosive dancer and such someone, that's just. You know he can do it all. You know he can do it all. You know. Um. So it was uh, you know it was tricky navigating those situations and trying to stay true to who I was.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 23:44

Um, so you know, that's what I would tell my younger self is just you know to stay, stay who you are and just forge ahead and stay on course yeah, because that's what you did right and it and it's working out. Yep.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:59

It's amazing, but thank you for sharing that because it makes sense that in a in a fairly niche market, right when you're talking about the Jared Grimes and folks like you, it's like comparison right From the outside from the people who put us in boxes. Absolutely, absolutely it's very difficult and and kudos to you for hanging and and keeping the respect for your brother you know for for Jared and that but, also for yourself, right, right by, by not changing.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 24:29

Well, you know, I credit that to Jared too, man.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 24:31

I mean because you know, when we first met man, we were, we were like brothers and we still are brothers and. And know, when we first met man, we were, we were like brothers and we still are brothers and, and we always made sure we, you know, gave each other our props and built each other up, no matter what happened, we were always there for each other. You know, it was, our relationship was, was far deeper than the dance itself and you know, he always showed value and and care in what I did and really appreciated what I did, always from the beginning, and me as well with him, no matter what anybody said. And so, you know, we're still really great friends to this day because we valued each other, we valued each other's opinions, our artistry and we cared. You know, we cared about each other outside of the arts, you know, we always pushed each other, challenged each other and knew that we could always be doing better, you know. So a part of that I definitely accredit to him for giving me that confidence, you know.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:29

That's beautiful, that makes sense, and it really tracks with everything you've told me so far, right, like even when I asked you about your younger self. It's like no, no, the hard knocks were good, you know, and and the challenge of Jared was fabulous, Right and and forged.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 25:44

Yeah, oh, absolutely yeah, yeah, that's you right.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:48

Growing roots everywhere, Like I love it you know, it's clear you don't just meet things at face value. You could, but you don't. Yeah, that's pretty cool, no.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 25:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know there's so much more to everything.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:03

Yep, Yep, and you know to your point. You know a lot of people will meet you and me and whoever at face value, because that's what people do. Right, but we don't have to own up to that. We don't have to own up to that we don't have to be what they want.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 26:15

To be Right, we can educate them Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:21

Hey, so what's the hardest thing you've ever had to do or that you've ever done?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 26:31

Probably Cirque du Soleil. That was probably the hardest thing I've ever done and thankfully I was young. Hardest thing I've ever done, and thankfully I was young. I didn't you know. I didn't realize how hard it was until after I was done.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 26:42

Um, and that's because I'm the type of person that don't give me a challenge. You know, don't say something that's hard, I will prove to you that it's not hard and I can do it. Um, and that was that situation. I mean, um, and I can do it. And that was that situation. I mean, I remember we were in Montreal for four months building the show we were rehearsing from anywhere from 10 to 12 hours a day, six days a week for about four months straight, and I remember the amount of stuff we learned, the dances that we've learned.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 27:17

Every day we would learn a dance and then the producers or directors would come in and say, no, we don't like it. The next day, learn something completely different. All while learning flounding, while learning how to juggle, while doing singing, acting. I mean we did it all At the same time. They were like building our costumes and trying to figure all that stuff out, and there was this onesie that we had to wear, and I remember being up there and I put on the onesie and you just see that little pouch hanging out in my little stomach and I was like, oh no. And so the producers paid up to me and luckily I was, you know, I was like, oh no. And so the producers paid off to me. And luckily I was, you know, I was really cool.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 27:57

When the producers she was like, yeah, I see that stomach pain. They said you gotta do something about that. I said don't you worry you, it ain't gonna be there. And so in these 10 to 12 hour days on my lunch break I'm in the gym. I would run to. I would every day, I would run two miles and then you do some kind of lifting or something like that. I changed my diet, you know, but I was determined, I mean, and I didn't realize how hard that was, because we were dancing like eight to 10 hours a day, but I just knew that this is what I had to do. So but looking back on it, I mean that process is just crazy, but looking back on it.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 28:35

I mean that process was just crazy. I mean, we were dancing on a stage that was raked and that would go up and down the highest it was like 45 degrees, wow and we were jumping on it, sliding down it, tap, dancing on it, doing all kinds of stuff. Man, it was crazy. Yeah, it was tough. It was really tough. But you know, after that I can really tough, um, but you know, after that I can do anything, you know everything's easy after that, right absolutely, absolutely yeah wow, what's?

Lisa Hopkins: 29:04

what's the biggest lesson you learned from that?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 29:06

do your head. Um, I learned that you know, discipline is, is just is key in every any and everything you do. I mean your ability to really just be disciplined about how you do everything, your art. You know what you eat, you know how you choose to speak, what you watch, you know what you listen to. It really dictates a lot, you know, you know, and that was a big lesson for me.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 29:57

Learning, uh, how to work with a different culture. Um, that prepared me for a lot, not only the culture of cirque, because back then I mean, cirque was huge, you know, you couldn't tell them anything but also learning to work with, uh, french Canadians and and they have a different way of doing things. Learning to humble yourself as an artist, because their campus up in Montreal, everybody was there working for free. I mean, we weren't working for free, but we were working way below what we would have been paid in the States and we were complaining, you know. But the contract, the payoff was getting to the show and we were young so we could take that hit.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 30:41

You know, it wasn't too bad, it wasn't like we had crazy bills we had to pay. So, because we were young, we could take the hit. But then you know, once we realized that every other artist up there we're from all over the world, we're training up there for anywhere from a year to a year for free. And then when you realize these people are coming from places where this is their only way out, this is their only opportunity to be able to perform or do what it is they do, or do what it is they do. And then a lot of them came from these circus families where their father and grandfather and mother and grandmothers were circus performers, and so it gives you perspective and made me appreciate a lot more just the opportunities I have.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:28

Yeah, for sure that makes sense, and it's really such a great exercise to think about what someone else's point of view might be right when you've decided how you feel.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 31:39

Yeah, absolutely. What else might be true?

Lisa Hopkins: 31:41

here.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 31:41

Yeah, no, that's pretty cool Right, right, right, right yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:45

So that was the hardest thing you've ever done. What's the easiest thing you've ever done? Now, it could be also a decision. It could be what's the easiest decision?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 31:51

you've ever made easiest to say for a maid, hmm, I'd probably say my wife.

Lisa Hopkins: 31:57

Yeah, there you go Nice.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 32:00

Yeah, I'd probably say Jenny.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:02

I love that. How long have you guys been married?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 32:05

We've been married for six years, together for nine. Yeah, nice.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:12

That was easy.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 32:13

It was a no-brainer, you know, because she came at the perfect point in my life, because I just got back from touring China and that, like, completely just changed my perspective on a lot of different things.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 32:38

That really humbled me and, you know, gave me a deeper perspective of just life in general and what we take for granted, and you know how we give energy to a lot of things that don't deserve it or that don't really matter.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 32:47

And so about three or four months after returning from China, I just really vowed to kind of change my way of doing things and my perspective and my outlook. And one of those things was in the relationships that I was having. And so I wrote down everything that was important to me and everything that I wanted in a partner and I said, you know, again, back to discipline. You know I have to be disciplined about. This is the type of person that I want to share my time and my life with, and I can't veer from that. And so I wrote it down and about four months later, here comes Jenny Wasn't expecting it and she just was checking off all the boxes and I said, well, that was easy. You know, of course you take your time to make sure that you know, um, those things are really true. Yeah, um, but yeah, it's amazing.

Lisa Hopkins: 33:51

It's funny because you know we talk about maps right and going where you. We talk about maps right and going where you want to go, but if you don't know where you want to, go it doesn't matter if you have a map.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 34:00

Right, because you could go anywhere. So you made your maps, yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:04

You knew what your final destination was, and then you were ready to arrive there Cool. Yeah absolutely hey, if you weren't in the performing arts, what would you do?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 34:16

I would be some kind of a social worker or something. I would be in the communities more than I am. Yeah, I mean I definitely would. I would be social working, doing some kind of social work, but also I'll be doing more producing.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:35

I will figure out how to combine those two.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 34:39

So that's definitely something I know I probably would be doing.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:42

That was easy. What do you know will stay true about you, no matter what happens.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 34:48

What will stay true. I guess the easiest thing to say is who I am. I'm always going to be a very passionate person. I always try to lead with humanity and, yeah, I'm always going to want to create a happy, safe environment for not only myself but everybody around me. You know I'm one of those people. I want everybody to feel comfortable and be happy and you know um find some kind of joy or just be in a good, a good space. I think no matter what I do or where I am, I'm always going to try to cultivate that. Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:31

How do you want to be remembered?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 35:33

Oh man, I don't know, that's a tricky one. You know, once someone's gone from this earth, what's more important, you know, like how people see them or revere them, or like the work that they've done or what they've cultivated, that people might not even know it was them. You know, um, what have they done for the community, the world, the environment, to help others to to, you know, be able to live out, you know, their, their dreams, or be able to live comfortably, you know, to begin with, or be, you know, feel secure in themselves. So, of course, naturally you want to say, I wonder if I think I was a great person and I did all these great things, you know.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 36:26

But then it's just like, because I know, growing up, when you have your heroes and think of people you know, it always seems something that's not obtainable. You know something that that you can't necessarily do or replicate, or you know, I feel like you're always chasing something you know, um. So I don't know, it's tricky. I feel like I just wanted to to make it better for the people behind me, even if they don't know who I am. You know, because I know that there were people that did that for me and a lot of people don't know who they are, but without them I wouldn't do. I wouldn't be able to do any of it. Yeah, I want to be able to create something or an environment where people can have this space and opportunity and access to be the best person they can be.

Lisa Hopkins: 37:22

I'm enjoying you so much. This is so great. I'm so lucky to get to speak with you, I'm lucky. So great, can you finish this phrase?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 37:31

Most people think that DeWitt Fleming is, but the truth is I know most people think I'm happy all the time and most of the time I am. I do have my moments where I'm upset or not happy or anything you know might be sad or something like that. I think the difference is just that I really try not to stay in those states of mind. I try to get out of it as soon as possible. So that's why I might seem like I'm always happy, because as soon as something hits I try to recognize it and figure my way out of it, just because you know it's just not a place I like to be in or a place that I feel like is helpful. Of course you know always room and you need to reflect and feel. You know room and you need to reflect and feel. You know all your feelings and all that stuff. But, um, yeah, most people think I'm happy all the time and most of the time, but not all the time yeah, it's.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:24

It's interesting, I can relate to that. Yeah, I'm curious to know if you ever feel a responsibility because when you're suddenly not the way people expect you to be, because you consistently are right that they then suddenly worry about you. Does that kind of grate on you when that happens, Like oh, oh, what's wrong? Something's wrong with the wit.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 38:43

I know what you mean. You know, sometimes rarely that happens, rarely that happens, but I just remove myself know yeah yeah, I just remove myself and go somewhere in the corner or something take care of it. Yeah, yeah, that's your, I mean that that speaks to your self responsibility.

Lisa Hopkins: 39:08

Right, you take responsibility for how you feel I respect you for for handling it, you know, because you, because you don't like it and and that's, that's good, right, right, but but if if there's any inkling of I don't want to be that way for them ask yourself, ask yourself again, you know, say well, yeah you know, this is another aspect of me, and that is modeling.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 39:32

I mean we talked about parenting right yeah yeah, you know the younger me, you know, when I was in those situations I took it as a challenge, you know um oh, he's just a tap dancer, you know, or you know he's, he's just an actor or whatever.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 39:49

I always took it as a challenge and I still do. Um, if I feel like, um, um, someone doesn't recognize a facet of what I do or, you know, uh, a part of me, they don't recognize it as being, uh, legitimate. You know, um, because at the end of the day, you know, you can never work too much on something. There's always work to be done, you know. So I've like taught myself that if one person don't like it, you gotta get that one person. You know I can't.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 40:27

I try not to let myself think, boy, everybody else liked it and that one person's crazy. You know because, because you know, the great thing about, you know, coming up in theater is that it's not about you, you know, it's about the audience. It's about trying to touch them, educate them or inspire them in some way. And so I kind of, you know, take it as a challenge if I haven't done that fully. And you know I'm not narcissistic to the fact that I don't understand that there's going to be people you just will not be able to reach, or please, that's just how it is, but that doesn't mean I can't try, you know. So, yeah, you know, in those instances I really just try to say OK, what can I do better? How can I be better, you know, how can I, you know, fine, tune this to try to, you know, reach more people.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:19

Yeah, yeah, no, it's beautiful and it's it's true. I mean, you know when, when, when you're finding people that don't like what you do, that means you're playing a big game because you're in a bigger fan and you're right. So so I love the distinction, though, that it doesn't mean you're not going to, you're not going to try, but the the goal doesn't become to convert them. The goal comes to be the best that you can be, and then to accept that therefore, people will be attracted to you for their reasons.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:51

You can't control the other aspect.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 41:53

Right, right, absolutely yeah, absolutely yeah. I right, absolutely, absolutely yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 41:56

I love it. All right, I have to let you go soon. I don't want to, but let's do a rapid fire. So I'm going to say what makes you and a word, and you can just pop in whatever you think. Here we go. Okay, what?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 42:10

makes you hungry. Oh, what makes me hungry? Oh, shoot Everything, people. I'm hungry to learn, you know, from people. Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 42:27

What makes you sad?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 42:44

Oh, the lack of understanding, the lack of willing to sacrifice for the sake of understanding, or the lack of compassion and just valuing others' humanity. That makes me sad.

Lisa Hopkins: 42:57

Yeah, what inspires you?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 43:00

People. Yeah, that's easy one people. People really do inspire me. People are really amazing at what they can do.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:10

What frustrates you?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 43:13

Time. Time frustrates me. Time frustrates me, really frustrates me. Time does.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:21

Lack of time.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 43:24

Lack of time People not being on time that really frustrates me. I value time, and when people don't value it the same way I do, that frustrates me.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:41

Yeah, fair, yeah, what makes you laugh?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 43:46

Makes me laugh. I'm pretty silly, so a lot of things make me laugh. I can't think of anything in particular.

Lisa Hopkins: 43:56

What makes you angry?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 43:58

People that disregard human life and disregard people in general, and that devalue human life and devalue people. That's what makes me angry.

Lisa Hopkins: 44:16

And finally, what makes you grateful.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 44:24

There's so much. There's so much. I mean I'm grateful for my family, my wife, my two kids. I'm grateful for my mom and my sisters, my entire family, my in-laws. I'm grateful for my mom and my sisters, my entire family, my in-laws. I'm grateful for the communities I'm a part of, I mean the TAP community. Man, you know, I've been all over the world and been able to connect with people. I mean that's a beautiful thing, just community, community. I'm really grateful for and I'm big on community. We are truly nothing without community. So, you know, that's what I'm really grateful for my family and community.

Lisa Hopkins: 45:05

Love it, I love it. Hey, what are the top three things that have happened so far today?

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 45:13

Today, top three things are I love my mornings with my girls making their breakfast and them doing everything in their possible anything possible they could do to slow down the process of putting their clothes on and getting out the door. And as frustrating as it is, you know, um, I love that time with them. Um, I like task, I like getting stuff done. So I was able to go to the grocery store this morning and do some things around the house that I needed to get done. And just talking to you, you know, being able to reflect on these things and having meaningful conversations.

Lisa Hopkins: 46:06

So yeah, ditto, Ditto. And what's something that you're looking forward to, both today and then something you're looking forward to later in the future.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 46:16

Today. I'm looking forward to both today and then something you're looking forward to later in the future. Today I'm looking forward to just relaxing. I don't have a show tonight, so I'm looking forward to just relaxing and hanging out nice um. In the future, I'm looking forward to how this opportunity that I'm in right now will help me to have a greater reach on communities and people that I might be able to help or influence or, you know, be of some kind of assistance to. I feel like every opportunity that you haven't done or community you're introduced to is a really great opportunity to have a bigger reach. So I'm looking forward to how I can be of service in that way, because I feel like my reach is going to and has expanded. So I'm looking forward to that.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:20

Yeah, dewitt, I so appreciate you spending time with me today. It's been such a joy.

DeWitt Fleming Jr: 47:25

Of course, yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Lisa Hopkins: 47:29

It's my big pleasure, I swear I've been speaking today with DeWitt Fleming Jr. I've been speaking today with DeWitt Fleming Jr. I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks so much for listening. Stay safe and healthy, everyone, and remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment. I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening.