Stepping Into a New Role: Lisa Hopkins on Her Journey from Dance to Coaching

In this casual and intimate conversation with Jeffrey Scott Parsons on The Musical Theatre Podcast Lisa discusses her journey from dancer to life coach. And the importnace of connecting with your essence.

• Lisa discusses her journey from dancer to life coach
• The significance of the book, "The Places When There Are Spaces"
• Importance of focusing on the process rather than the end goals
• How creativity relates to everyday life and decision-making
• Embracing interconnectedness of different aspects of self
• The inception of the podcast during the pandemic
• Exploring flow as a flexible and adjustable state
• The value of collaboration in the creative process
• Recognizing that creativity is inherent in everyone

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Chapters

• 0:24 Creative Possibilities
• 12:39 Artistic Evolution and Empowerment Through Coaching
• 20:09 Navigating Flow and Collaboration
• 32:58 Personal Growth Through Story Reflection

Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:24

Hey there, this one was really special for me. I've had the pleasure over the years of working with Jeffrey Scott Parsons as a dancer and choreographer and now, years later, we got to reconnect in a whole new way on his podcast, the Musical Theater Podcast. We talked about my journey from dance to coaching the creative process and, of course, my book, the Places when there Are Spaces. If you love deep dives into musical theater and the stories behind it, definitely check out Jeffrey's show. He's fantastic. This conversation, though, my friends, was such fun. You'll learn a lot more about me and about Jeffrey. It's a thoughtful conversation and I can't wait for you to hear it. Let's get into it.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 1:06

I recently ordered a book on the old Amazon called the Places when there Are Spaces Cultivating a Life of Creative Possibilities. Now, it's been a while since I've ordered a book like this and I hope we'll get to chat about that a little bit later, but I'm happy I did. It's this book that's made up of, I believe I'm happy I did. It's this book that's made up of, I believe, 59 or so short essays, each of which is followed by a prompt for, you know, journaling or just maybe even meditation. I found the book because its author, lisa Hopkins, is someone who I greatly admire.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 1:52

Lisa was the first true tap choreographer that I ever worked with. Dancing her choreography was the first time I realized, oh, like, tap isn't just a series of steps we memorize and then robotically perform on a stage. She was orchestrating, using rhythm and movement, in a way that, like, could still give the audience what they wanted. You know the audience wants shave and a haircut two bits but it was doing it in a way that was maybe also surprising them. Anyway, through all of that because we did, I believe, like three different productions together I never saw Lisa look stressed once, and that includes, I remember that we were in the carpeted lobby of a theater trying to figure out a rather important tap solo that needed to go into the show that night, and she was just like easy breezy cool as a cucumber. I haven't seen anything like it before or since, but anyway, she worked on one of the revivals of the Follies on Broadway.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 2:47

She's also a life coach and has created this book, and humans like her that seem to understand things that the rest of us can't quite grasp, naturally are exactly the ones I want to talk to. So here for a conversation on life and creativity and this wonderful book, everyone, please welcome Lisa Hopkins. Yay, oh, thank you, lisa welcome.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:12

I'm so happy to be here.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 3:13

I'm so happy to be here.

Lisa Hopkins: 3:14

I mean it's I knew when we met. First of all, I mean, you've got something really special besides your talent. I mean, I work with a lot of talented people. Your talent is extraordinary, so I will give you that, thank you. And you are absolutely beautiful too, so I'll give you that as well. But not only did you have the goods, but you're so good, you're such a wonderful human being, and I remember sitting in the lobby of the Colony Theater speaking with you I think it was the first time we worked together on Dames and you were so interested then in what I guess I was kind of cultivating for myself. You were asking me the deeper questions about my why. Basically Now I mean in retrospect as a coach I can really understand what kind of conversation we were having, because it felt a little bit like a mentorship at the moment. But it was deeper than that, as I see it. And you were searching and I've learned in my journey that I've been coaching my whole life, even though I've been dancing my whole life. If you talk to probably anyone that trained with me.

Lisa Hopkins: 4:24

I remember my students saying things to me there. In fact, there's a passage in the book about the journey is the thing, where one of my students, you know, came up to me and said, oh, I have a gift for you or whatever. And it was this, this which I still. I still have it. This was a long time ago. She said it was at steps, steps, on Broadway, and she said, um, it said the journey is the thing. It was a teacup, it was beautiful. It said, lisa Hopkins, I had a saucer. And I was like, wow, that's, that's really beautiful. And I kind of remember laughing it off going. Do I say that? Well, you say that all the time and, and obviously it really landed with her, you know.

Lisa Hopkins: 4:57

I was always talking about, you know, and I and I remember my ego still being I was honored, I mean it was really nice, but I didn't apply it to anything. I was kind of like, yeah, but how about the combination? Wasn't that really great today, you know what?

Lisa Hopkins: 5:12

I mean, I don't know if I was really thinking that, but you know how, when you're in it, you're really in it. But it was again a reminder. And the way we do one thing is the way we do everything. I really believe that and I really learned that and I really embodied that and embrace that. So I guess all that to say is, when we circle back around to our first meeting, what you're doing now and what I saw in you in that first meeting, beyond your talent, the essence of us is what is where we that's why I call it, you know cultivating a life of creative possibilities. I'm not saying you need to be creative. I'm saying that we can. We can live life creatively, um, and that you know it's the art of living, isn't it?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 5:57

I have so many thoughts I don't even know where to go. But yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. And because, regardless, if you go into the uh, a creative profession, an artistic profession and let's be honest, please don't I'm not entirely sure anyone should, but but, like what you're saying, is the, the act of living, is creation in a way, right. There is a divine, divine nature to make, to choosing, to making decisions, to learning from our mistakes. Whatever it may be, I don't know, there's something really beautiful and artistic about it. But here's my question you have these two parts of yourself that live in harmony, you know the dance side and the life coaching side, and do you have any perspective on what things you were kind of born with, what aspects of those skill sets you were born with, and which ones did you like, nourish and cultivate? What do you think?

Lisa Hopkins: 7:03

That's a great question. It's interesting because you said skill set. You know I don't believe it's a skill set and I also don't see it as two parts of me, and I'll talk a little bit more about what I mean about that. It's two parts of many parts of me, for sure.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 7:24

Fair enough.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:25

But it's not a binary. Yeah, I'm the same person, the essence of me, in fair enough, but it's not a binary. Yeah, um, yeah, I'm the same person, the essence of me, in everything I do. That's the practice, right? And so I did come to this world relatively I'm hesitating to say optimistic, because as a little, as a little girl, I wasn't. I was very cautious and quiet and I never spoke unless spoken to. I was not an A-type. A lot of people mistake me as an A-type person and I think that's because my agency is so strong, who I am is so strong and I've learned, you know, even in my dance style you know, I talk about this in one of the anecdotes, right that I thought it was my strength, and it was a strength for sure, like my, I had very dynamic style of dancing. So when I arrived in new york city, you know I stood out because I was friggin strong and you know. But it was my mentor that said phil black, who's just, you know, god bless him because he's the only one that ever said to me no, too strong you're, it's too strong and taught me about shading and taught me about all the nuance and all the space and all the all of it. Um, I think that you know, with the, with the dance example, you know, I've really translated that to in my work as a, as a coach to understanding cause, I work with very high. I work with high performers, right, I work, and not not necessarily performing artists, although many of them are are creatives, but people who who are playing at a high level in whatever it is they're doing. And so what I sort of teach them, if you want, is is to understand that often, you know, our strength is our biggest weakness, because it overshadows, it becomes our default, because it works Like, yes, it did get me noticed, dancing like that did get me noticed. But if I kept doing that, right, what else am I missing? And thank goodness again for the wise words of my mentor who said you know, who basically planted the seed, that there's way more than that. And what the hell are you doing? You know.

Lisa Hopkins: 9:32

And so when I learned the nuance and the shading of the movement, if you want, then that made my strength even stronger. When I used it, when I applied it in the proper situations rather than defaulting it and doing it in every combination or in every scenario. Right it and doing it in every combination or in every scenario, right. And so you know, by the time you met me, I had evolved that as a style, as a choreographic and dance style, like I really that really spoke to me, but that's the way I am as a person too. Like I started to recognize that whatever I'm doing, I'm strong at doing what I'm doing, not because I'm great, but because I'm all in, so so when people meet me as a mother or as a teacher, or as a coach, or as a dancer, or as a tap dancer or a jazz dancer or a director or or a friend that you know, they, they think of me like that, because our brain naturally files.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 10:23

It needs to file.

Lisa Hopkins: 10:25

Correct, cause it's easier just to get through your, through your, your world. And it used to bother me, jeffrey, like it used to really bother me. You know when I would get hired in new york to to do jazz, you know, theater, jazz, which is a huge passion, yeah, I remember saying I'll never forget this. Like I remember saying, you know, I also do a little, I tap a little too, like I was kind of joking around and they're like oh, oh, no, no, no, we've got tap people.

Lisa Hopkins: 10:47

We got our tap people and I remember them naming off the and this maybe isn't going to be on the podcast, but I remember them naming the people you know we have so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so, and in my head I'm going I taught all of them Like they're all my students that you're talking about.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 11:05

That's fascinating.

Lisa Hopkins: 11:05

That you're talking about that you're saying that you have, and I was like that's been an interesting thing for me. It's almost like a reverse imposter syndrome, isn't it?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 11:16

I mean, you're exactly right, excuse me, I hope that this isn't just about like, now let's make it about me.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 11:20

But I do relate to what you're saying, because I think one of my strengths is patience with discomfort, and that stems I know it stems from being both gay and being religious. I quickly realized well, are they going to find out I'm from Utah first, or are they going to find out I'm gay first? Because it will completely change how they talk to me or act around me from here on out, and the just kind of waiting on the fence to see how I was being treated, and then I could then give them what they wanted, because I'm a performer and I'm like, all right, so this is who I am to you and and great and let's, let's do that a strength and a skill that I'm not always super proud of, uh, and has been confusing for a great deal of my life but it also made my creative life, my artistic life, my my little safe space right because I could go and be whoever I wanted to be, regardless of what anyone knew about me and how they felt about it and whether or not it was even possible.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 12:39

But it's also why in many ways I started the podcast was because my creative life has taught me so much, not only about myself but about other people, other stories, history, and it was like a conduit for feeling connection with all of that feeling, a part of it.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:03

Do you find that, in looking at things from like a life coach standpoint, yeah, I mean it's interesting because when I started really thinking about doing it professionally and gaining the skills and so on and so forth, it wasn't because I wanted to leave my life in the arts. In fact, I was deeply in it in New York when I just I started thinking about honestly it came from a place of wanting to help younger people, a lot of younger people. So there's two things I'd love to share with you. One is you asked me first I'll finish before I go off on a tangent which is during that time I was very cognizant and my daughter was about their age too, right. So what happened was I started to notice her and the kids in front of me had so much potential. Like we're living in a world you know, this is pre-pandemic too right Just living in a world of absolute potential. But the communication skills in that, because of the internet and all of that, they were really stuck. They were really struggling. I could really feel it. But I could also really see their potential, which is what coaches do. They see the potential in you and I thought I'm going to produce because I'm a producer. So I'm going to produce an event and it's going to be an empowerment event for mothers and daughters. And I knew exactly what I was going to do and who it was going to be, and my, my friends and most of them in the industry, but not all, but really high, high performing women, you know, and I'm going to have them come, and so on and so forth, and and and then I had this ping of like and I was like I'll do, you know, I've got stuff I can do with them. I know, you know, I know what I could, like I could do with them and bring out in them.

Lisa Hopkins: 14:54

And then I was like I should get trained, like trained as, like you know. It was just like this ping moment and so that's what I went in doing there. There had been something floating around me for many years and for many years my daughter had said you should be a coach. She knew way more about all that than I did, but I had a very good friend who also had been a coach for many years, so she had done all the vetting. So I knew that this was the right place, if I ever did it.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:17

So I checked it out. There was something in New York and then I kind of went all in like I do, but I was still doing everything and it took years. I mean, the actual training was a solid year and a half, intensive, you know, it wasn't one of these three, three over. It was like doing a master's really, you know, but it was. But it was incredible and so I went in thinking that I was going to help those people. I remember my cohort saying to me oh my God, you're in the arts, you could leverage your community and blah, blah, blah, and I was like, oh no, like, no way, like, which was silly in a way, because you know, it's just the I was triggered by the leverage where, like I, to me that sounds awful, so so so I kind of I really withheld.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:01

I mean, I did have people finding me anyways, but I kind of withheld. I didn't go into my class and you know, or I was standing in or in front of the cast of the thing that I was choreographing and going, by the way, you know none of it. So I myself was putting myself in those silos, the ones that that, the very ones that I told you that people did with me. So I was living that. I was like no, I'm the director of this show. Meanwhile, on my breaks in tech, I was coaching somebody like on the phone, duh, but anyways. So this guy.

Lisa Hopkins: 16:35

But when the pandemic hit and I was isolating and I was teaching remotely, I was like this is so crazy, like I could really help all these people in my community. They're all put on, a whole Broadway is shut down, like, and then I just I had all put on, a whole Broadway is shut down, like and. And then I just I had no idea. That's how the podcast started. I had no idea. I had never said, oh, I'm a coach, I should have a podcast, or oh, I want to have a podcast. I didn't even listen to podcasts and I was sitting way up in mountains and I called my first. I called my first three guests for my students. They were all on Broadway. They're all 20 years old. One was in Jagged. She'd never gone on yet she got cast and it was going to be her Broadway debut. One was already in Dear Abin Hansen, but he was understudying all the boys, all the leads and had never been gone on yet.

Lisa Hopkins: 17:23

So he'd been in the show for a while but never been called to go on to cover Gosh the show for a while but never been called to go on to cover the anticipation. And then the third one was um in doubtfire and she was on elise. Um, she, she was a well-known child actor, she was in a lot of stuff so she was really experienced and she was playing having her first. You know she was playing lydia, is it lydia? I think it was lydia um the first kind of adult yeah, and it shut down after the first preview.

Lisa Hopkins: 17:46

So they're all my students and so so. So I said I'm going to get on the phone, I'm going to call them and I'm just going to say do you want to have a conversation? I can hold space for you. How are you doing? I don't know if you know this about me, and that's where that was born and it was organic and where I could really go. No, I'm truly interested in this energetic space and I, no, I'm truly interested in this energetic space and I'm not your mentor, I'm not your teacher, I'm not your director, I'm not your friend. You know, I'm just holding space for you, like like a coach does. And then you know, here we are, like four years later, five years later, you know, it's the love of my life and I speak to wonderful, creative people that I don't know, um, from all over the. You know all over the world, and so for me, that's a long-winded answer to your question of the sort of bringing together your world.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 18:33

Because for me it had to be organic.

Lisa Hopkins: 18:35

the intersection and the book is the same thing. During the pandemic I started doing these solo episodes on the podcast because my daughter once again said to me I was fooling around, you know, with with microphone and I was, I was writing some stuff and I, I think I found some old thing that I wrote and I just recorded it for the hell of it and, um, she said I would listen to that.

Lisa Hopkins: 18:56

that short form you know, I don't really listen to long form and I said oh really she goes. Yeah, just throw it up in your podcast. And oh my god, really, so I could have easily. Yeah, I could have eaten. It's still probably even more popular than my very famous guests wow and it's really.

Lisa Hopkins: 19:14

It's really funny because, again, you know I was trying to separate. Well, that should it be a separate podcast, like you know. Like you know what I mean. You start to go what are people going to think? I'm like it needs to and I was like no, it's the same thing. It's holding space, in this case holding space from them, but I took a lot of them and reworked them and so on, and that's what's in the book, along with some older writing. So you just don't know what's in front of you, right? And so for me, it is all about integration.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 19:58

You said that right at the beginning, that we bring. How did you say we bring our same self to every situation?

Lisa Hopkins: 20:04

Yeah, I mean the essence of us. It doesn't matter what we're doing.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 20:07

Absolutely. I've been a fan of these. I don't know, I have a natural propensity to the work of Brene Brown or Adam Grant or Malcolm Gladwell, like I. There was a time where I was just like reading ferociously any of anything that they had and right at the end of the pandemic I got a little. I don't want to say jaded, but maybe j'm just slowly. I'm just now coming out of it and your book has been a great place to meet me. Because these little essays are short. It takes maybe a couple minutes to read one a day. It takes another couple minutes to think about the wonderful questions that you then ask as the prompts. That's all to say that that's my experience. Do you ever feel that sort of inauthenticity, kind of, around this type of work?

Lisa Hopkins: 21:22

Why don't I read this?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 21:23

Please.

Lisa Hopkins: 21:25

Because I know you wanted me to read something.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 21:26

Yes, yeah, 100%.

Lisa Hopkins: 21:29

And then we can talk more about it. So there has been an entire industry developed around flow. The word that once described a quality of movement has become a movement. In a stressed-out world, desperate to find meaning and life purpose, A raison d'être world desperate to find meaning and life purpose, a raison d'être. We are inundated daily by reminders of how great flow is. Our literal and metaphorical inboxes are overflowing with the latest directions on how to get there, and although I think it would be fair to say that most of us consider flow to be a desirable state in which to reside, if you have ever felt frustrated or overwhelmed in your quest to find or arrive at flow, you are most definitely not alone. Despite what the billion-dollar mindfulness industry promises, flow is not a destination. No mantra, mindfulness program or affirmation will get you there, and there certainly is no one-size-fits-all for every occasion. This is your invitation, your permission to ease up and take the pressure off of flow.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:40

Imagine for a moment that you are a garden hose and your garden is your world, everything you've created and experienced up until now. It is composed of the things that you put energy into and grow and nurture, as well as the things that you try to keep alive, even though perhaps they've had their season. Some things in your garden flourish with little oversight needed, like perennials with strong roots that brave through even the harshest of seasons. Others require more special care and attention. Some things will even cross-pollinate and grow new into new things without you ever even knowing.

Lisa Hopkins: 23:20

In this analogy, water is your energy, your flow. The nozzle is your mind, which controls all your settings or filters the thoughts and associated emotions that direct your energy responses and choices. Flow is limitless and all intensities serve us depending on the context. Like the garden hose, we can adjust the flow and reduce or intensify the pressure depending on what we want or need, or intensify the pressure depending on what we want or need. There is no one setting for all the things that you grow in your garden, and what might require more pressure in certain climates may need less in others. The key is to know that it is you that has the power to control the different settings.

Lisa Hopkins: 24:01

Kinks in the hose show up in our lives as limiting beliefs, assumptions, interpretations and fear, and threaten to reduce our potential to access our natural flow and drain our energy. But remember, we are the hose and, just as we create our garden, it is only us that constricts our flow. There will be times when you feel like you need to protect what you are growing in your garden from pests or saboteurs by building fences. There will also be instances when you opt to remove the barriers and expand the garden, and there will be times when you experience a dry spell and, no matter how much you try, you can't find your flow, and that's perfectly okay. Just because you aren't flowing does not mean you are not growing. Like water, our flow is our own renewable resource. It can be used inward for personal growth and outward for whatever it is we want to create or grow.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 25:03

I love that you've played with flow and pressure. I think of like being in the shower and like what kind of pressure do you want in the shower? Right, but if there was a flow problem, like that's something completely different, that's like a plumbing issue, but in terms of the pressure, like that's the nozzle. I love my shower head. It has like four different ones and you can get like the massager going right, like whatever you want. How often are we fixating, maybe, on a flow issue when maybe we're actually fixating on a pressure issue? You know.

Lisa Hopkins: 25:45

That's interesting, yeah, issue. You know that's interesting, yeah, and I think the the cool thing about this is like I mean, I wrote it but as I'm reading it I'm thinking again going what I was discovering was that we a it's okay to not be in the flow all the time, like in the, the, the, you know stereotypical flow, yeah, that this is some sort of achievable state. I mean, we all, we are all in the flow all the time. Just think about some. You know one time that you recently that you were doing something that you got completely absorbed in and and sort of lost sense of time. I mean that's flow. But but to think of flow as something like you know that that you need or want or whatever, and that you don't have I don't know, or that you have to make happen Exactly.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:30

Exactly, and you know the kinks in the hose right are. You know which happens. You know in a garden hose right where it constricts the flow and you know using that as the metaphor for well, you know the negative thoughts or the limiting beliefs and all those things. That's what constricts our flow of being, if you want.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 26:50

Right. So then my follow up yeah, absolutely. So then my follow up question to that is we can only, we can only be responsible for ourselves. Ultimately, yeah, and our and we get to be not, we can only be.

Lisa Hopkins: 27:06

It's not a scarcity thing, it's. It's a powerful thing.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 27:09

Fair enough, Absolutely, you know. Yeah, I mean literally right. Yeah, musical theater that I find to be one of the most collaborative art forms you can be a part of. How does that fit into our flow? How?

Lisa Hopkins: 27:35

do other people become part of our garden? Well, that's really interesting because your flow is a solo thing right, exactly.

Lisa Hopkins: 27:44

But you're talking about rising to the collaborative flow, which is which I'm super interested in. And in fact, I have a client who recently was talking to me about you know he's starring in ragtime actually and um, I know one of my favorite shows and we were talking about. You know it's his favorite show in the world, his you know his favorite role. He's getting this great opportunity to do it and you know he's being irritated by these kinks in his flow. He's positioning the kinks in the flow as these external and they are external things right, like the fact that they won't get him the right headset, you know, even though he asked for it and he knew that that would help him contribute to the bigger part of the project.

Lisa Hopkins: 28:22

And what he sort of recognized was that he wants to be the best he can be in the role, like we all do, but we also all want the show to be the best it can be. And if we stick in, that low level energy of you're getting in my way, jeffrey, because you know you're not doing it the way that I know you should then it's judgment that's getting in the way of my flow, because I'm spending my energy judging you, as opposed to rising above and thinking you know, what are my resources here? That's where you actually get. You live in the real world, right, like the outer world where you say what are my resources? How is this serving me, how is this serving the project? And then you don't get into the water cooler I call it water cooler, but you know where, where you're just kind of like. Then you go over to the, you know, to your castmate and go I can't believe Jeffrey's such a you know and then you use this low energy, right. How is that helping? It makes you feel better in the moment, but it's not actually helping your flow, nor the flow of the collaborative flow that we're talking about, and so we are responsible to the bigger picture to not to be quiet, right, I'm not saying like shut up about it, but to not make everything so binary. It's got to be like this or it's not going to work my way, or the highway that you know that sort of in my work, level two energy, which is more catabolic energy, right?

Lisa Hopkins: 29:46

So in the case of this client of mine, he recognized that he could actually call the stage manager of his show back in New York and get the headset that he usually uses, and so on and so forth, you know, because he could do that. So he got into a place where he could think about his resources instead of just sticking in that low thing and going as it slid off his face. You know, halfway through the performance. See what I mean. I told you so, like, is that really going to help, right? Do you see what I'm saying? So it becomes, when we talk about coaching as being solution focused, it doesn't mean that, like I have the answers, the client has the answers. Right, I know that. But it's about keeping open to realizing there are always different ways of approaching things, right, and to seeing things differently. Does that make sense? Does that?

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 30:37

answer your flow question. No, that's so great, the idea of resources being a higher energy than I need to meditate on this and write about it. This is cool.

Lisa Hopkins: 30:51

Yeah.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 30:52

Yeah, I'm so excited that I get to edit this episode because I'll be able to listen back and think about all of this. I love working with professionals because I know they have resources, and sometimes, when I'm working with people either either less experienced or in in a situation that is maybe underfunded and, let's be honest, most non-profits are, you end up you end up overtaxing your own resources to the point of developing, sometimes control issues and burnout at the same time, right.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 31:35

Oh yeah, yep, coming out of the pandemic and finding our audiences and engaging. And how can we find that collaborative flow without necessarily being burnout or having to do everything ourselves?

Lisa Hopkins: 31:55

yeah, and and it's not about doing everything yourself, right, that that was to to be clear. I think it's to understand the landscape and then to understand your why. You know why, why you're doing it, what your non-negotiables are, um, and being clear with that. But that's what coaching is like. It's about. That's when we talk about mindset. It's not about reframing. If you came into me and said, Lisa, this is really bothering me, and I said to you well, why don't you just reframe it? Everything will be fine. Yeah, exactly.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 32:27

You know what I mean? I mean well, why don't you just reframe it Everything?

Lisa Hopkins: 32:29

will be fine. Yeah, exactly, you know what I mean. I mean. Yes, ultimately, it is about looking at things differently, but it doesn't happen just by putting a mantra on your frigging desk or, you know, manifesting a house that you are. You know what I mean it's. You can have the, you can have your house on the wall. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not the thing that's going to get it's the thing that's going to maybe remind you and energize you? Yeah, and I think that's another answer to your question about the industry.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 32:55

Yeah, yeah, 100% Um cause.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:58

You know, coaching is a tool.

Lisa Hopkins: 32:59

It's a tool and you know, the, the biggest, most important thing, and maybe for you too, like, like, or for you, for anyone listening to, when you're looking for that flow or that collaborative flow, you know, if you're working on a show or whatever, is like, not, is the, is the not being attached piece, because when we get attached to what we think is supposed to be, can you imagine like 30 people all being attached to and a lot of it's going to be my performance or you know, my next gig, or the Asian in the thing or whatever?

Lisa Hopkins: 33:30

But if we can all just just let go of attachment and just just control what we control, which is being the best that we can be, and then finding the resources to do that, I always say this to people who are auditioning it's like you have to do your work, you have to honestly do your work and know that you put your absolute, all of your feet forward and and your goal becomes I'm going to give them. You know, be the best that I can be for this. I'm going to do my research, I'm going to, you know, do the whole thing. I'm going to get a good night's sleep, like those are all the practical things, and then I'm going to show up and then let the rest just happen, because you can't control that.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 34:10

Yeah.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:10

But what happens is people get disappointed. Oh, I was so good and still I'm not good enough. Well, that's, that's a limiting belief. You just weren't right for the show.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 34:19

It's not, it's not personal. Ooh, you know it's so. When you, when you were talking about the book which I'm now holding being a tool it's something that I wrote down before coming and talking to you is, I think it's instead of a toolbox, it's a tool book. And I find, when it's like, okay, it's time to go to the tool book and do a little bit of work, you know, and it's enjoyable, and it doesn't seem insurmountable, these little essays, you know, sometimes you get into a book at least for me and I'm like ooh, this chapter's a long one. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get through it. It's not intimidating. How about that? It's work that doesn't feel as intimidating.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:07

You know what's so cool? Well, and it's funny because you call it a toolbook and if someone isn't looking at it or hasn't read it, like I love that you said that. But it's really interesting because it's the antithesis of I didn't want it to be like a workbook.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 35:22

Sure, like, these are just essence, this could just be a book with no prompts and you just read it. Sure, these are just essays and it doesn't feel that way.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:24

This could just be a book with no prompts and you just read it. No, no, but I love that you do find. I do love that you are using it as a tool Like that's so cool to me, and you're not the first person to say that. I wanted to share the writings and the reflections and allow a place for reflection. That's all that I put forth.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 35:43

Reflection is the right word.

Lisa Hopkins: 35:50

And I'm finding that people are like, yeah, so so people that are doing it like you're, you're going to find a simple one line prompt at the end of a story, basically. But we learn, we learn through stories and we relate through stories and people are telling me so many different things like, ooh, the one about the arms, you know, floating up. I started to cry when I read that and it's like it wasn't like some big lesson. I didn't sit down to write lessons. They were not. These are real time, me looking at me learning lessons and then sharing them with you and saying what do you learn from this? As opposed to me teaching a lesson like I will write a book, like that. I do have some IP where you know what I mean, where I can actually give you, you know, like a workbook and a toolbook and stuff like that I can do that easily.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:28

But that's not what this is. But I do love that. People are like no, like I thought I was buying it just because you know especially people that know me at all are saying like you know, because I wanted to support you or whatever. But I realized I was really buying it for myself. I don't know. I think there's something about the essence of something like this and like theater and the reader being the final audience member, and then the reader then becomes part of the thing, because then the reader can pick it up again and then something new can cultivate from that. So even just by reading it, you're like cultivating creative possibilities, which is crazy, like I never really thought about it, you know.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 37:04

No, that's so beautiful. And you talking about story, I'm like no wonder. This is the thing that speaks to me, because look at what this whole podcast and my passion is. It's about going into our stories that are part of the musical theater canon and recognizing that they play a huge part in not only culture but in helping us realize things about what it means to be human and alive. So the idea that this tool book is just filled with stories, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense for little old Jeffrey.

Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 37:37

Yeah, yeah, I am so grateful, thank you, for I feel good now. I'm so. I feel like you need to send me a bill for being on my podcast. I'm so sorry that I just made you do a session for free, but truly, everybody out there, the places where there are spaces, but like this is what the show is about. Right, this is what the community, the podcast community, is about is not only sharing in in what we have in common through the arts, but what we have in common as humans, and and I think that these types of conversations and and the stories that you're sharing in the book are are reminders of that. So, thank you, thank you, miss Lisa Hopkins.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:21

Oh my gosh. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment. I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening.