Angelica Chéri : Navigating Loss, Creativity, and Success

Have you ever wondered how personal loss can shape your creative journey? Meet Angelica Chéri a storyteller whose life was profoundly influenced by the loss of her mother and the loving support of her father. Her narrative is a testament to the power of following one's passions, even when they veer away from initial goals like becoming a physical therapist. Through imaginative play with her father, Angelica discovered her storytelling gift, setting her on a path that was both challenging and rewarding. Join us as we explore her remarkable journey and the lasting impact of parental encouragement on creative pursuits.

Navigating through grief is a deeply personal experience that can redefine how we engage with the world. In this episode, I share my reflections on the enduring presence of grief following my father's death. This conversation sheds light on the unexpected gifts that come with accepting loss, such as laughter and vivid dreams that keep loved ones close. We also discuss the importance of acknowledging our emotions and how they shape our personal narratives, while balancing the demands of life with the need for thoughtful introspection.

The road to artistic and business success is often paved with resilience and a clear understanding of one's "why." We delve into insights for aspiring writers, emphasizing the importance of balancing creativity with business acumen. Special attention is given to the context in which Black women embrace a "soft life," challenging societal expectations of strength. Through personal stories and professional milestones, we highlight the journey from humble beginnings to pivotal roles in the industry, underscoring the significance of relationships and adaptability in achieving one's dreams. Join us in celebrating the art of living with ambition, hope, and the transformative power of storytelling.

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Chapters

• 0:24 Embracing the Art of Living
• 15:59 Navigating the Depths of Grief
• 23:29 Mastering Decisiveness and Collaboration
• 33:08 Nurturing Strength Through Softness
• 37:20 Crafting Artistic and Business Success
• 49:22 Reflecting on Life's Journeys

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:24

This is the Stop Time Podcast. I'm your host, lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking, motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. Where we are at, hey. So there's no right or wrong way to do anything, and this afternoon I was supposed to speak with Angelica and some construction started happening right outside my studio, so we pushed it to five o'clock. Five o'clock came and Angelica was delayed on a call and it was no problem. She asked you know, could we start a little later? That was no problem.

Speaker 1: 1:16

The call went later than anticipated and so we were texting back and forth trying to maybe find another day or another time, and that became more difficult and we don't know each other. So there was that moment where each of us maybe was energetically more worried about the other guy and I wanted to really hold space for her, even in text, to understand that this is for her just as much as it is for me, and it's important that she feel comfortable and what would she like to do. And she said let's hop on, and so that's what we're going to do. She also asked for five minutes, which is huge and important. It's so important to ask for what you need. There's nothing wrong with that right. So I'm waiting here for Angelica Cherie and I'm super excited to chat with her. Sometimes, these kinds of things that happen actually set the stage for an even more real and human experience. So stand by waiting for her to check in.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Yay, hi, lisa, hello, how are you so stand by Waiting for her to check in.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Yay, hi, lisa. Hello, how are you oh?

Speaker 2: 2:32

how are you? I'm very well. I'm so glad that this was able to happen. Thank you for being flexible today.

Speaker 1: 2:40

I'm so excited to chat with you. Let's just jump in. Tell me a little bit about your origin story. Tell me a little bit about you origin story.

Speaker 2: 2:49

Tell me a little bit about you. You know it's interesting. I haven't had to tell my origin story since. Well, my origin story has always been the same until something that happened recently, this past summer. So my mother passed away from breast cancer when I was 11 months old.

Speaker 2: 3:10

That has always you know, just been the beginning kernel of my origin story, because that is where I believe my storytelling proclivity developed. With my father we were playing games on the phone because there was a while that I was living apart from him Because, again, at 11 months old, being a widower and a single father with an 11-month-old child, you know he needed help and we played this game back and forth where he would make up the voices of Yogi Bear and like that whole cartoon and I jumped in and did like improvisation and would be writing things and telling him what to say and adding new characters and things of that nature and we just had our own thing and it went on for a couple of years and in more recent times, I guess when I became older, he reflected that back to me as the moment that it all started, that I started writing and telling stories, and I share that about this is the first time I had to tell the origin story in this way. Share that about this is the first time I had to tell the origin story in this way because he just passed away this past summer and so navigating life now without him has been part of my journey. That's been just something that I'm growing and growing through every day, but he really was the main person who encouraged me to walk down this path. He was not like the typical parent that said you have to be a doctor or a lawyer or something Like.

Speaker 2: 4:54

I started acting when I was 11 years old and doing really nerdy Shakespeare competitions like Julius Caesar and Midsummer Night's Dream, and I'm 12 and I'm like I have no idea what I'm saying, I don't understand, but I understood the stakes Right, and so that's really all that mattered. But I started writing plays in high school. I wrote my first play when I was a freshman and it was like a one act. And then I wrote my second play, which was a full length, when I was a senior no, a junior in high school. So that's just kind of and that play was actually produced at the school, like I directed, cast, directed, produced like that play at school. So that was the touchstone moment for me that, let me know, like this is what I'm going to be spending the rest of my life doing, when I was 16. And here we are, many years later. Um, but yeah, los Angeles, born and raised okay, and yeah, storyteller from not infancy, but not long after infancy that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 6:05

I mean, was there ever a time when you detoured from that? Where were you thought, or did you always know that you wanted to do this?

Speaker 2: 6:13

yeah, you know it's funny because I was actively participating in the arts. But if you asked me when I was in middle school, high school, like what I wanted to be when I grew up, I wouldn't have told you that I wanted to be a physical therapist. That's what I was thinking was going I grew up, I wouldn't have told you that I wanted to be a physical therapist. That's what I was thinking was going to happen. My dad did the opposite. It wasn't that I wanted to be an artist and he was trying to encourage me to be a doctor. I wanted to be a doctor and he was trying to encourage me to be an artist.

Speaker 2: 6:41

But like, yeah, I mean in high school I had it was probably about let say yeah from, even though I wrote a play. Freshman year, like I wasn't thinking about joining the theater department at my high school. There really wasn't a theater department at my high school. I was like on the drill team and you know, in the spirit squads cheering in the stands at football games and like I just thought, oh, whatever, like I didn't, I wasn't paying attention to it. And then, junior year, it was like, yeah, here we go, here we go again, write a full length play this time, so the tour wasn't very long or profound.

Speaker 1: 7:20

It's interesting. Can you glean any like core essence of physical therapy and writing that that still connect to you?

Speaker 2: 7:31

Absolutely. It's care, caring for people who are hurting and looking for a way to alleviate pain.

Speaker 1: 7:41

There it is.

Speaker 2: 7:42

There it is. I've thought about this.

Speaker 1: 7:44

Well, no, it's amazing because I believe that right. You know people often think no, no, now I'm doing something different or whatever. But if you dig deep down into your why right, you really start to recognize probably no matter what you did right, that would be part of what you did. Right now you're doing it through writing.

Speaker 2: 8:03

That's right.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:05

Exactly, and music is part of that too. Writing, that's right. Yeah, exactly, and music is part of that too. I think, like when we are wounded, we are conscious of wounds and other people.

Speaker 1: 8:17

Yeah, I'm going to ask you with your permission. You know you jumped in right away by sharing, sharing the loss of your mom when you were so young. Yes, and thank and thank you for that. Really, I really appreciate your, your openness and trust. Do you think that that was the essence of the wanting to care, the feeling that obviously, when you're 11 months, you're not thinking that, but as you grew up and knew about your mother, was that? Is that connected to that? Do you think, to wishing that you could have?

Speaker 2: 8:47

I really it's so interesting because it's so subconscious. It's so subconscious Like, for example, my grandmother who cared for me when my mother passed away. She passed away when I was eight, nine, like right before I turned nine, and I have a lot more questions, not even questions, but I was a lot more aware of her passing. But my mother, to be 11 months old, I don't remember anything about her, right, and so it's not that I was like aware, like mommy's you know I'm, I'm wounded from mommy being gone.

Speaker 2: 9:22

It was just like a constant, like I'm living without this appendage, like it's like born without, or feeling like you'm living without this appendage, like it's like born without, or feeling like you're born without an appendage.

Speaker 2: 9:31

And I think that placed me in a heightened level of curiosity about the world than most if you are born with a complete family unit or if something happened in a certain way, like because there's always this question, why you know and what if? And the other thing that I think that I came into a consciousness of is the fact that when my mother passed away, she passed away before I had language, like before I perceived language in full consciousness, and before I had language, like before I perceived language in full consciousness and before I had the use of language as a tool to ask questions. So it was like an all internalized grief that, 11 months old, you are aware who your mother is, you know who she is, you're aware of her absence when she's gone, but the processing of like where is mommy? Where did she go? What happened? Like didn't have the opportunity to ask those questions at that moment, but I think that curiosity never left me not just about mom but about everything else, because my antennas and my sensitivity are heightened because I have this loss.

Speaker 2: 10:47

So I think that that all kind of contributed to stories 100%.

Speaker 1: 10:52

That's so fascinating. I have so many questions I want to ask you. One is I can imagine that, given what you just described, right, with you not having language, but with you absolutely having body language, knowing that your mother was gone, knowing viscerally that she was gone, but as you came into learning to communicate in the world in the way that the world expects you to communicate, aka language, that there were already limiting beliefs put upon you because there was the oh my God, poor girl lost her mother. This must be a really big deal. How is she doing? And you right, contextually that's so interesting to me right that split too between the head and the heart, because your heart felt it. But yeah, wow.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Very, very deep things that I started to work through in therapy as an adult. What I mentioned about the sensitivity, my therapist was telling me that it's like a radio frequency. If people even know what that is. No-transcript. My mother passes away. I'm separated from my father, living with my grandmother, moved to live with my father, separate from my grandmother. My grandmother passes away. So it's like all three of my main caregiver parental figures in the first eight, nine years of my life either passed away or I was separate from them for a period of time. So my sensitivity to separation and human contact is heightened. My awareness is like heightened, like it's extreme, like my awareness is like extremely heightened, and I think that is what makes me so obsessed with character, because I just feel like the way the things that people sort of take for granted as given circumstances, when it comes to personality types, when it comes to, like, even language, even, like you said, way a person speaks, I'm extremely curious about like I want to know why. I want to know why and and and and, yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 13:42

Me too. What's really interesting and stands out to me and I don't know you well enough to know this, but I'm going to throw this out there is that, despite all the loss and and, yes, the heightened awareness makes sense, but despite all the loss, your, your brain, also learned that you didn't die, you're okay, and that's incredible. Right, that's that. Does that? Does that make you feel strong? I mean, it's not that you're not sad, it's not that you're. Yeah, talk to me.

Speaker 2: 14:15

I'm getting emotional, and that's totally fine.

Speaker 2: 14:19

I think that that's that's how I feel about my father's death, how I feel about my father's death, Because my mother's passing was like, as I said, like learning to live with if you were missing your left middle finger or something, and it's like everyone else has one of these, but I don't, but it's fine, Like I know how to you know, but you're really depending on that thumb Right and it's like if anything were to ever happen to this thumb, I don't know what I would do, and then the thumb is gone, right, Like my father's. My father passing away was my greatest fear Because I was just like, if my father passes away, then I'm going to be an orphan.

Speaker 2: 15:05

Yeah, father passes away, that I'm going to be an orphan and I have no siblings, and my greatest fear was being like the only little twig left on the family tree. And that's exactly what has happened to me in this last six months, and I thought that I would be inconsolable. I thought that I would be like a shell, like curled up in the fetal position, doing like, just unable to function, because I also thought I had a lot more time. I thought I would be like in my seventies or something I don't know. I thought my father was going to live forever, you know, but I'm like, I'm not like inconsolable grief, and I would just wrote a post about this on my socials today.

Speaker 2: 15:59

It is something that I it's not my enemy and it's not my friend. It just is like oxygen just is, and breathing just is like we're always breathing but we don't always pay attention to our breath. But when someone asks us to focus on our breath or when we're short of breath or whatever, like we have moments where we pay attention to the breath and then we focus and then it's gone and then we just we forget about it, but it's still there, and that's what grief has been for me, like it's always present. My father's not here anymore, but I don't focus on it all the time. I'm still going to yoga, I'm still going dancing, I'm still praying, I'm still going to church, I'm still juicing, still seeing my friends, still binge watching some shows, and that does make me feel strong or stronger than I thought I was. I didn't think I needed to be any stronger than I am because I'm just like. I think I've had more than my fair share of strength. That I did not ask for, but it does make me feel much stronger.

Speaker 1: 17:11

Yeah, you're a badass.

Speaker 2: 17:15

I receive, it doesn't always feel like that.

Speaker 1: 17:21

No, 100%. And and I really respect what you're saying about grief it's, it is always, it's always there, absolutely 100%. But you know, one of the most helpful things I find is to remember that these feelings and grief is a feeling, right? You know, our feelings are not directives. Just because we feel this way does not mean that it will dominate every decision I make in my life. On the other hand, when we want to acknowledge and address and feel the feels, that's okay too. The important thing is to feel is is to to acknowledge this, you know, by choice and not by default, right? Not just to say, yep, that happened and therefore I'm going to be tanked, I'm wrecked and everything I do is because of that, and that's not.

Speaker 2: 18:11

That's not what you're doing not, that's not what you're doing no, no, it can't be like there's much more to do. There's much more to life. Yes, I have much more. I'm not satisfied yet like I've got a lot more living to do and yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:29

I just refuse well absolutely and absolutely, and good for you and you are a badass, so you know, and your dad knows that and he's watching you and he's in you and all of the above. And just final question and we'll move on. But thank you, you started here, so I'm glad Like hey look, no, let's do it. No, the grief, it's an important thing to speak about. You know you're not alone and I know that the listeners will really appreciate your honesty. I do want to ask you and I'm curious and I know you're going to have an answer, or two or three, right, right, what are the gifts that you've discovered so far in grief?

Speaker 2: 19:16

the gifts that you've discovered so far in grief. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1: 19:20

You know the gift, one of tears.

Speaker 2: 19:27

Tears are a gift because it means that I'm feeling and I'm conscious and I am pouring out, I am releasing. So that's first the first gift, I think. The other is dreams. I have been having very interesting visions, dreams of my father, in different iterations since he's passed, and I'm not sure what they all mean. I don't know if they are him trying to communicate or my subconscious trying to work out his absence, cause they have been all over the gamut. Like literally a week ago, I had a dream that I walked into a five and dime store. Like would have been in the sixties, when my father was a kid and he asked me to make him some butterscotch pudding.

Speaker 2: 20:16

I love it that's supposed to mean um, but that's definitely a gift because it's like it keeps him close, keeps his voice, his um, presence, his humor and things like just close and active. It doesn't make him feel like a memory. I can't fathom him being a memory that just I'm not there. And I think the other gift I would say laughter Like and that's not even necessarily about my father, like I rarely think about him and laugh. Sometimes I do think about him and laugh or smile, but like just the fact that in this process I'm still laughing, there are still things that bring me joy, I'm still able. It's like the same, the counter of the tears, like I can still laugh.

Speaker 1: 21:15

Yeah, okay, and I'm going to be okay yeah, hell, yeah, that's beautiful oh thanks you know, in the, in the form that I sent, I asked. I think I asked what. What would you say are your strongest attributes right? And it's interesting. Well, first of all, how difficult was that for you to answer that? Out of curiosity.

Speaker 2: 21:39

The attributes or just all the.

Speaker 1: 21:41

Well, yeah, let's talk about just this question in general.

Speaker 2: 21:44

Yeah, you know, I don't know that it was difficult. It's interesting to think about how I see myself versus how other people see me yeah because I think it's different, you know. Um, I think a lot of people would be surprised by the amount of like intensity and like pain and things that I've been through, because most people just see a big smile. They're like a lot of people are like, oh, you're so happy and I'm like, yeah, but you don't know what's underneath that. You know.

Speaker 1: 22:22

You know, you said you know, you know how you perceive yourself and you sort of know, you think you know, we think not just you, we think we know how other people perceive us, but we don't really know, and then. So then we create a story about the story, right about the story that the other person might um, and it's like, and the key is like do you operate from there?

Speaker 2: 22:45

right, that's, that's the, and I'm like you can't, you really can't. I think it's only, it only matters when people cross a boundary, you know, or if an opportunity or something is denied because lack of information. Sure, but other than that, it's like you will find out what you need to find out when you need to find it out, and if not, fine.

Speaker 1: 23:17

I mean, it's storytelling at its height is all these stories we tell ourselves right.

Speaker 2: 23:23

All storytelling. It's a mad thing to think about. It's all stories, that's all it is.

Speaker 1: 23:28

It really is. I'm curious to know are there any stories that you tell yourself that you'd like to rewrite?

Speaker 2: 23:35

That's so interesting. There were lots of them. Now I don't. Now I think there's less and less. I think the story that I was telling myself is like I'm alone now, or I'm alone, or I'm going to be alone. And what I have realized? I'm never alone, like I only am alone when I choose to be alone. But if I choose not to be alone, at every moment I could be in the company of multiple like. There's so many loving people who are like at the ready, and that's a, that's a, that's an honor and it's a privilege.

Speaker 1: 24:23

Yeah, 100%. Would you consider yourself an extrovert? An introvert, how do you recharge? Do you like to be with people? Do you like to be alone?

Speaker 2: 24:34

you recharge? Do you like to be with people? Do you like to be alone? That's so interesting.

Speaker 2: 24:36

I think I'm a hybrid, definitely, Cause I definitely love and feed off of the energy of other people and being social, Like I'm definitely a social butterfly, Definitely love being around my friends, family, just you know. And then I have a. I have a cap that I reach where it's like you know, we now have the term social battery. When that thing is depleted, I'm like I've got to get away, like because I'm still an only child and I'm still like a internal processor, yeah, and external it just depends on the situation. But after so much time like I need to be out of every, I need everybody out of my face, I need to be in my own space with my own music, in everything and like um. So, yeah, I think it's kind of like 50, 50.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, no for sure. But what's your definition of living in the moment?

Speaker 2: 25:32

Oh my goodness, it's just not asking for permission, like just being present and going for it.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Yeah, how often are you able to do that?

Speaker 2: 25:43

I think most of the time there's just a few things that I won't do. Fair Not doing that Roller skating is one of them oh, there you me either.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Well, being in the moment doesn't mean you you have to do everything. That's right. That's right. You can be in the moment about not wanting to roller skate it's, it's hilarious, right there's no rules about like, yeah, being in the moment means just you have to take pleasure, and everything, either I mean you can be in the moment means just you have to take pleasure in everything, either I mean you can be in the moment in your grief, in your anger, in your whatever it's very true Right.

Speaker 1: 26:19

You said that you're an incredibly that you are. These were what you called your strongest attributes that you're incredibly thorough and decisive, that you never waver, and when you set out on a task, you stop at nothing to complete it. We're finishing it. Talk to me about how you do that and what influences you. What takes you off? Yeah, talk to me.

Speaker 2: 26:45

It can be as micro or as macro as it needs to be. Like, for example, if I'm at a restaurant and I see a menu and there's like 30 things, I'm like that's what I want, I just pick it, that's it. I don't have to read the whole menu, I don't have to go through, like you know, like I've made a decision, that's it, I'm doing it, that's it, I'm done.

Speaker 1: 27:03

I love it. Wait, so that's enough. So that's enough't want to spend time, you know, ruminating over what you're having, because a lot of us do that at restaurants, like what is it, what is it for you?

Speaker 2: 27:24

I think it is just like I know what I like. I know what I want and, yeah, I'm like all right, that's that made the decision. Now I'm hungry, I want the food, like I want it, like I want to make I think it is. I want to make space to move forward, like I don't want to get stuck in the like rumination when I know what I want.

Speaker 1: 27:46

So you, I'm guessing, then you don't experience paralysis by analysis very much.

Speaker 2: 27:52

I can definitely overanalyze things. I can definitely overanalyze things, because I can definitely overthink, because I am, you know, again the question and the like you know, but it doesn't stop me from moving forward in life. It just makes me curious about certain things. But if I'm like, if I have to make a decision, I'm like all right, this is what I'm doing. Okay, this is what I'm wearing. That's great. Like it's very rare that I'm like I can't, I don't know. Like when people say, oh, I'm indecisive, I'm not mean, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 28:26

So what threatens to get in the way of that? Like there must be things that get in the way of you, right? I mean we can be decisive, but sometimes things can stand in the way. It does anything.

Speaker 2: 28:36

You know it's, I think, yeah, well, so this is a great question because it depends on circumstances. Like every circumstance is different. If it has to do with just me and what I want, then that's like great doing it. That's like great doing it. If it has to do with, you know, longer term consequences and longer term implications, then yeah, OK, then I'm sitting down and I'm like you, like we said before, I'm storytelling, which is, if this decision happens, and then this and this and this, you know, then I start walking out different possible outcomes. You know, then I start walking out different possible outcomes and then I will sit and like try to weigh, you know, like, okay, you know, do I buy this house? Well, do I want to take on a mortgage? That's this much. Well, if I don't and I rent, you know, like I will start to storytell things, so that. So, stakes and consequences definitely will cause me to have, you know, to analyze, to analyze definitely, but then I will make a decision. All right, let's just do it.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Well, to me, what, what you just shared, doesn't sound like bad analyzing, it sounds like discernment, it sounds like you're faced with some, an opportunity, and then you use your pragmatic brain to you call it the storytelling, but I call it smart to look at the different scenarios and then make a decision. That's sensible. That's, like I said, discernment, rather than you know. It's not reactive, right Right. But what about collaboration? I mean you're a collaborator, so how does that affect your decisiveness?

Speaker 2: 30:17

Oh, I mean it's great because, like, for example, with Ross and I will have to say this like our collaboration has been 10 years, and we say this often we have had zero fights in 10 years. We may not always agree on everything, but that's the beauty of collaboration. It's like in our relationship. I will always have a strong point of view Like boom, this is my point of view and I see 100% why it makes sense. But then I hear his point of view and I'm like, oh interesting.

Speaker 2: 30:55

You just like something I didn't consider, and so then it's usually like where's the middle ground? Or it's like, no, no, that's better. You, you're what you just said, let's do that.

Speaker 1: 31:07

So that's cool, cause what I'm hearing and what I'm learning about you is that that that superpower of curiosity that you developed since you were a little girl, that comes in really handy when something comes up against what you think and know is absolutely right in collaboration, definitely, because it allows you to go what else is true, which is, again, a superpower. So I know this and I feel this, and I feel it so much that nobody can take it away from me if I want to go that way. But what else is true?

Speaker 2: 31:37

What else is true? What am I not seeing?

Speaker 1: 31:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:41

What am I not seeing?

Speaker 1: 31:42

That's a sign of a true leader. By the way, that's a really high frequency thing you got going on there. I receive no, it's beautiful, it's really cool.

Speaker 2: 31:50

No, Thank you for that. It's also something in I mean collaboration in an even more exploded situation, like the writer's room, yeah, in TV, and there's like six of you and you're all throwing ideas to the table and it's usually like the best idea wins and you end up seeing so many different perspectives and so many different things. And, like you said earlier, when we first hopped on, there's no right or wrong, like there's just different paths and different ways and there's something that could be more interesting. But sometimes it's subjective, but sometimes it's like something is just cool and it's like we just want to see this happen. We just want to see this, yep.

Speaker 2: 32:34

And it's like something is just cool and it's like we just want to see this happen. We just want to see this, yeah, yep. And it's like, yeah, you just kind of learn, but it doesn't change how you your instincts, it's just that you make space for the other perspectives to expand. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:53

Yeah, totally, totally. And I mean that's the growth mindset right there. I mean loud and clear right, which is that if this doesn't work, it's okay, because I'm going to learn something from it and I'm going to grow and I'll keep moving forward. That motion that you talk about, that you obviously really want in your life, that forward motion comes from actually sometimes things not going exactly the way you thought they would or should Exactly.

Speaker 2: 33:20

Exactly my goodness.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Yeah, you also said people tend to think that I'm much more delicate or fragile than I actually am. Now, that's interesting Because on the one hand, they see you as you know joy but on the other hand, they see this how do you perceive that? Where do you get that?

Speaker 2: 33:58

Very like, warm and like inviting, and I think a lot of people you know they when I tell them stories about how like, oh, I stood up for myself in this instant or I was in this situation, they think that because I'm such a gentle, warm, loving person, that that means that I'm like I don't want to say weak, but delicate, and it's interesting. There's an interesting phenomenon on social media, hashtag soft life, and I don't know who coined this term, but I was introduced to it by a brilliant writer and director that I worked on an animated project with. That I can't say yet, but soon I'll be able to.

Speaker 2: 34:32

But, she was introducing us all to this idea of the Black woman superhero schema, which is extremely prevalent, which is like, as Black women, like we, have been conditioned to have to always be the backbone, be strong, bear the weight, hold the weight, make the space, absorb the pain and all these different things. And it's true and sometimes that dynamic I mean even in my life. Obviously these were not circumstances that people chose, but I had to become stronger than even my peers, who were also young Black women, but definitely in other circumstances they're just things that I had to adapt, that I wouldn't have asked for, right, and I think, as a whole, a lot of Black women are recognizing, like why am I always feeling like I have to do this for my family at a large, or be the person who always makes this sacrifice, or whatever? Like I want to adapt the soft life, which is like I just want to pick some flowers and sip my tea, and not that I'm abandoning my responsibilities, but it's that I don't feel like I have to be overrun in order to be able to enjoy life or to have meaning or to be significant. And I think it's the flip side for me, because the way I present, I don't present with pain and struggle and grief and the things that I have endured, because that's not what I'm living in, the reality of Like it's there, it's always there, but I live in the joy and the excitement and the fun and all of that.

Speaker 2: 36:18

And so people are seeing that and they're not seeing the like. Sturdy, I've been through tragic circumstances and overcome pain and understood, you know. So they're like surprised to find out that pain and understood, you know. So they're like surprised to find out that I'm not just going to fall over and faint when faced with an obstacle or in a situation that other people would think is scary, dangerous. How did you ever, how would you? You know? Like, hmm, and like it's really interesting to me, like, oh my God, you said that Like just because that's again perception, that's not your relationship with me, because that's not necessary in our dynamic. But if you put me in a situation, that's business or whatever, I'm going to show up how I need to show up in that space, and so I guess the contrast is so vast that people are surprised.

Speaker 1: 37:13

Yeah, that's really interesting. Well, again, people see what they want to see also, what makes them feel better, and so on and so forth. Right, if you were mentoring somebody, an aspiring writer, what have you learned along the way that maybe you wish you had known that you would share with them?

Speaker 2: 37:30

That's a great question. There's so much, oh my God. So I will say three things. One is always remember your why. Remember why you're telling this story, because you are going to get a lot of unsolicited notes, feedback, you know. And if it doesn't respond to your why, then it's irrelevant, Because people are always looking at your story through the lens of their version of the story that they would tell not necessarily the version you're telling. Like, you have to find the people and identify the people who are helping you further the vision of what you're trying to say versus you know what they want you to say. So, like, don't get lost in other people's notes and the way you do that is always remember your why. That's one.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Which, by the way, before you go into number two, is exactly what I do in my work about life right.

Speaker 2: 38:31

Really.

Speaker 1: 38:31

Well, yeah, I would have said the same thing, but not about writing, but about living. I mean, just think about what you just said and think about life and think about right Living, based on the notes that you get from others about the way they think you should be living, because they care about you or they care about the story, or blah, blah, blah, yeah. And if you forget your why, or if you don't have your why or haven't stopped long enough to understand that you deserve a why and we all have one, right, you know? And it's ever evolving. So it's not like suddenly you're going to clear the decks and oh, there it is.

Speaker 1: 39:09

You know, there are a lot of people who are like I don't know, I don't have a purpose, and then they get freaked out and then the goal becomes I have to have a purpose as opposed to you know what I mean as opposed to actually, like you know, exploring and and and and finding, finding what, what lights you up, and so on and so forth. So I just want to say what you said was like textbook about life oh, I love that.

Speaker 1: 39:33

I mean, that makes sense, because it's it's always about the why always anchor and everything, because if you have the why, then you can go about the how there we go.

Speaker 2: 39:44

Oh, I love that, I love that. The how depend why.

Speaker 1: 39:51

Yeah, because, and the how is just where you actually. You know you get practical and make choices and you know you figure it out. But if you're connected to your why, then the how reveals itself and it's easier to choose, because there's an infinite ways of how to do things. How you would do it would be different than me. How you would do it today is going to be different than how you would do it tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Next month Exactly. You know it's so contextual and you know, I think we as humans we are contextual, like, yes, we are in different contexts, but we are also ourselves different in every moment, and I think that's so important to know.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Completely. Every relationship, every circumstance, every setting like. We're different, but that doesn't mean we're any less of who we are.

Speaker 1: 40:38

It's just like you said Correct, and we're also different in the same circumstances. We're still different. This is work I do.

Speaker 1: 40:46

My dream is to work with creative teams going on a project, right, like imagine going into a movie set, say, and everybody could have a language where they could speak and connect to how they're going to be the most effective that day, that hour, in this scene, as opposed to always being expected by self and by others.

Speaker 1: 41:09

You were hired to do this, angelica. This is what you're good at. You need to do it now, but you're contextualized right, so you'll be able to pull it out because, yes, you can do that, but your best is not going to look the same today as it did yesterday. Necessarily it might, but it's always going to be slightly different. Necessarily it might, but not, you know, it's always gonna be slightly different. Now, you know we overshadow ourselves with when you know, with our, with our strengths, because, a, people expect us to show up that way and B, we like showing up that way, because it's difficult to to do that, you know. And so my dream is that we all have a language that we can speak, where it takes something as intangible as perception, and make it tangible so that you can identify whether you're choosing it consciously or by default because you're used to it that is fascinating actually right I find that really fascinating.

Speaker 1: 42:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:10

Love that.

Speaker 1: 42:11

And you would, especially as a writer, because you can do it with your characters.

Speaker 2: 42:18

That makes me think about a writing exercise that I love to do is the thing I haven't said yet. Ah and you can kind of flip that through multiple different lenses like answer that in compassion, versus if I answered that out of anger, like you're going to totally so.

Speaker 1: 42:39

but you were going to do number two of advice you would give that you wished you had had about right for a writer. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:47

I would also say learn the difference. I would also say learn the difference. So there's your artistic and your business brain, and learn how to separate the two, because you know, when you're creating you're in your artistic brain and you are. You need to be completely unaware of the business portion, because that will infiltrate the writing. You want to just be purely creative. But once you start in the business portion like if you have to negotiate a deal or you have to talk to producers, talk to marketing people, if you have to, even like if you're hired to write something it's like you have to remember that your business fuels your art and sometimes you'll have to make a business decision that may not feel like.

Speaker 2: 43:43

This is necessarily like connected to your artistic instincts, and I'm not saying that you compromise, I'm saying like, understand, like sometimes when you're having a conversation and it's about commerce or it's about you know how you want to shift the lens, understand like you're thinking like a business person.

Speaker 2: 44:04

This happens a lot more in TV and film. I have found like when I'm pitching, for example, like I'm pitching something to a network, to a buyer, I'm pitching and, yes, the artistry is on the page, but when I'm pitching it, like I'm pitching it with a business mindset, like I'm selling this product because I want you to buy this, and then that gives me license to exercise my artistic you know venture. So it's just, it's almost like flipping a switch Right now I'm an artist, now I'm a business person. I did not know that and if you've come in thinking that it's all art and no business, the business may frighten you and it may turn you off. But you just realize they don't have to be they. They have a um, they work in tandem. They don't have to be against each other.

Speaker 2: 45:03

That's important, big, huge lesson.

Speaker 1: 45:09

Yeah for sure. How did you learn it Big, huge lesson? Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2: 45:12

How did you learn it? You know, I think it was through lots and lots of experience pitching for TV and film and learning what it means to pitch. Like if you're straight out of theater and someone tells you, okay, pitch this story, give a take Like I don't know what that is, what does that mean? That is what does that mean? You know, learning the different story structure, like the if it's tv, like what your episodic structure is, versus, if it's film, your three-act structure, and you're like, all right, get the bare bones of that and break this down and sell it. What are the points? You know? You need to know the characters need to know the Like it becomes, this like not even a formula, but like it's a, it's a stew. You know you need to make this space. You know the rice needs to be there and you just you come to keep coming to the same table over and over again and you're like, oh, ok, I get how to make this, you know, let me put my spin on it.

Speaker 1: 46:11

It sounds like also it's learning the language of the people that you're working with right all the time.

Speaker 2: 46:15

Yeah, it's every time. Yeah, depending on what the studio is, what kind of projects they sell, what this person's interested in, like, it's all business yeah, no for sure.

Speaker 1: 46:27

And research and doing your homework right.

Speaker 2: 46:29

Exactly Doing your homework.

Speaker 1: 46:32

Is there a number three?

Speaker 2: 46:34

You know what I think, so I wasn't aware of it, but I think now that, as I'm thinking, it's work with the people who are in the business of telling the story with you and not telling the story like apart from you. Like work with people who you know want to be, who are on board with helping, like kind of with the notes when you're taking notes from someone, you want to make sure you're listening to people who are remembering your why. When you're collaborating with people, you want to work with people who are working in harmony with your strengths and who excite you, who you admire, who are bringing something different to the table. You don't want it. It shouldn't feel like a chore to be. It shouldn't feel like, oh, I have to work with this person. Like work with the people who excite you and who bring something out of you that you don't expect. That's great advice.

Speaker 1: 47:31

What would you say is your biggest challenge right now? That's an interesting question.

Speaker 2: 47:38

You know, I think, what has been hard for me personally, like I have been spending a lot of time in the writer for hire space, which has been great because that's number one, it pays the bills and number two, it keeps me writing and it gives me the skills and the tools that just keep getting sharper and sharper for when I want to get to my original projects, sharper for when I want to get to my original projects.

Speaker 2: 48:17

I think I have not embarked on my own original work in a while, apart from my musical. A lot of what I've been working on has been working for hire and I find that my plate gets full to the point where it's like my plate gets full to the point where it's like, either the ideas, the ideas it's not that they haven't come, it's that there's pieces of like massive undertakings that I feel like, okay, this is what I want to do and I only take on projects for hire that I feel so connected to that I feel like become avenues for the things that I want to say, that I start to think like, well, what else do I want to say? What other stories are living there and sometimes living in the wake of grief? I'm like I'm not really imagining what else to say right now, but I know it's all cooking and it's all about to kind of come forth, but there are things that I'm seeing pieces of and haven't gotten around to. About carving out the time and the space for my own stuff again.

Speaker 1: 49:22

Yeah, If you had to choose one highlight and one low light from your life journey so far, what would those be and why? And again, you can stay on career if you like. I mean wherever you want to go with it is fine.

Speaker 2: 49:37

That's. That's a really great question. So highlight, you know, definitely my first TV staffing job, godfather Harlem was. One of the biggest moments for me was breaking through that and because it took very long just to get through the door of a TV room, and so always the gratitude that I have in Chris Brancato for believing in me and giving a space for my voice is just like Now I am. I am, I feel like a confident TV writer and in theater, obviously our musical coming to the point of Broadway, like it was a huge highlight to have it at Paper Mill and for it to be slated as like the next incoming Broadway musical is huge, it's huge.

Speaker 1: 50:35

Yeah, congratulations, it is huge. Hey, I want to ask you, I want to. I want to back up a little bit. I'm sure a lot of people will want to know. I remember growing up and watching interviews and and there was always such big gaps in things, like like you'd watch someone that you really admired and you loved what they were doing, and then someone would ask, like I asked you what's one of your highlights, or whatever, and they would say, oh, it was that seminal moment when I walked through the door. But no one ever says how did you do that? Like, how did you do that? Oh, wow, you know what I mean. I think a lot of people would want to know.

Speaker 2: 51:14

For sure. So getting that job took, I want to say it was like five years in LA back home, because LA's hometown. But I was in New York for six years and I came back on a false promise of a dream of a job in TV and film. That all crumbled. It was never real, it didn't, it didn't come forward. But I spent the next four and a half years going through as much as what I could to learn TV, like I did the what they were calling at the time I don't know if they still call it this what they were calling at the time, I don't know if they still call it this.

Speaker 2: 51:53

The big six, the networks, abc, nbc, universal, fox, uh, you know, abc, disney and just all of that. They all had their own um apprenticeship programs and for those programs you had to either write a spec script, like an episode of a preexisting show on TV, or your own original pilot. So I learned how to do both, and not saying that the first of those were great by any means, but it was an effort and it was practice, practice, and so from doing that, like getting a TV agent and getting managers, and reading tons and tons and tons of pilots and taking classes and learning as much as I could and watching so much TV and so many different types of TV shows. See the difference between six acts, four acts, five acts, you know, and different stuff like that, and eventually writing more samples, continuing to write in theater, getting stronger.

Speaker 2: 52:58

All of it feeds itself and eventually I, you know, and then also learning those meetings, pitching learning how to pitch, and learning how to go on general meetings and staffing meetings, how to talk to showrunners, how to talk to execs and producers, and just learn the language and learn what's required and having good conversations. And literally it just was a matter of the right script and my agent, my manager, is setting me up with the right meeting, the right guys at, and there's an opening and it was the right show for me. I learned that as a writer, they cast the rooms. It's just as much as casting the cast the actors, like they cast the writers. We need this person, we need this type of person, we need someone who has this experience.

Speaker 1: 53:53

Yeah, that's like yeah, that's really interesting. Um, hey, I am curious Did you pick a show, did you pick a sitcom and are one of those shows? Which one did you pick?

Speaker 2: 54:05

I picked new girl. I love it, oh fine. I was like how could I resist?

Speaker 1: 54:11

It's so cool. It's really important for people to know these things, I think. I'm so tuned, yeah, so thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I love that. How do you want to be remembered?

Speaker 2: 54:22

Oh, that's a sweet question. Like I want to be remembered for the way that I loved people and the way that I helped people.

Speaker 1: 54:37

Yeah, that's beautiful. So five years from now, you call me and you go Lisa, since we talked, oh my God. And we're celebrating. We're popping some champagne. What are we celebrating?

Speaker 2: 54:47

We're celebrating our musical. So Gun and Powder has been the title of our musical since 2014. Now we are in the process of changing the title, which I can't reveal. And well, five years from now, no, it's been on Broadway Five years from now. It's like we are belatedly celebrating the broadway run the net. The broadway continued run as it's continuing to run for five years national tour, international tour, grammys, tonys, all that. I'm married with two kids, maybe three, um, and I have sold. I've sold a TV show that's been made and my feature film has been made, and Ross and I have recorded an album of just our own music, apart from a show.

Speaker 1: 55:43

Love it.

Speaker 2: 55:45

That's, that's.

Speaker 1: 55:45

I love that. I can't wait for that party.

Speaker 2: 55:48

Exactly. Let's pop the champagne, let's put it in a time capsule now, so it'll be nice and aged.

Speaker 1: 55:54

Absolutely no, and you know it's already, just like all your ideas and all your. You know everything that's inside of you. It's already there. You know it might not be exactly the story that you're painting, but you can feel it, right, you could feel it when you imagined it and it's really that feeling that you're going for, and I think, being open to the possibilities of putting lots of that feeling in your life, then it will be generated through some of these things and others. Right, and yeah, it's not only dependent on that happening. But why not? Why not say that, yeah, that's fantastic. What do you know will stay true about you, no matter what happens?

Speaker 2: 56:36

Oh wow, that I'm a storyteller, yeah, and love bug, and that I was always asking the hard questions.

Speaker 1: 56:54

Yeah. What would your younger self be most proud of right now?

Speaker 2: 56:58

of you. Oh my goodness, I've seen pictures of her recently and I'm like, oh yeah, I think she would be very proud to know that we pursued storytelling professionally and that we have made a career out of it and it's continuing to grow. I think she would be very surprised and excited because she loved make believe always, and I think she would be appalled but yet proud to know that you know we lost daddy, but we'd never lost daddy.

Speaker 1: 57:33

Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's so beautiful and I bet you I was thinking about you and your two kids. I bet you one of the one of the big reasons I could be wrong, but I bet you one of the big reasons why you want to have kids is so that you can tell them stories like your dad did with you.

Speaker 2: 57:50

Oh, my gosh. You know what I really that's. So that's definitely part of it. I really also want to see how my father shows up in my kids. Yes, he had a lot of gifts and talents musically, storytelling, wise, a lot of things and i'm'm like am I going to have a little baby Mozart?

Speaker 1: 58:15

All right, my friend, I am going to say what makes you, and I'm going to say one word, and you say the first thing that comes to your mind what makes you hungry Tacos? What makes you sad?

Speaker 2: 58:26

Tears.

Speaker 1: 58:28

What makes you?

Speaker 2: 58:28

inspired Beautiful chords Chords. What makes you frustrated? Beautiful cords Cords.

Speaker 1: 58:32

What makes you frustrated? Ignorance. What makes you laugh.

Speaker 2: 58:38

Kittens.

Speaker 1: 58:40

What makes you angry?

Speaker 2: 58:42

Injustice.

Speaker 1: 58:44

And finally, what makes you grateful.

Speaker 2: 58:49

Daddy.

Speaker 1: 58:51

Hmm, daddy, what are the top three things that have happened so far today?

Speaker 2: 58:57

today I woke up in my right presence of mind. That's massive. I got to have multiple phone conversations with people who I love dearly, and I got to have this conversation with you.

Speaker 1: 59:22

Like this is amazing, I agree. It's one of my top three, that's for sure. And what's something you're looking forward to, both today, for the rest of your day, and in the future?

Speaker 2: 59:31

Falling deeply in love.

Speaker 1: 59:33

Yes, Wow, is that happening today? I said do something today and something in the future, and you're like it could happen today. Let's just say that's going to be both Amazing. Angelica, I so appreciate you spending time here with me to be in the moment. I really, really do. Thank you thank you.

Speaker 2: 59:57

This was an honor and so much fun and I look forward to to having more conversations I've been speaking today with angelica sheree.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

Thanks so much for listening. I'm lisa hopkins. Stay safe and healthy, everyone, and remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality In the moment. I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time. I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening.