Meg LeFauve & Lorien McKenna: Brave Enough To Be Joyful (Recorded July 2021)

What does it actually take to be joyful—not performative-happy, not “fine,” but truly joyful in a way that feels brave, embodied, and real?

In this episode, I’m joined by two brilliant storytellers and screenwriters, Meg LeFauve and Lorien McKenna, whose combined credits span beloved studio and indie projects across animation and live action—including Inside Out, Up, The Good Dinosaur, Captain Marvel, and more. Together, they also host the outstanding podcast The Screenwriting Life.

We begin with Inside Out as a doorway—asking which character each of them most identifies with (and why). Lorien claims Disgust: truth-teller, protector, and sharp point of view. Meg surprises us with Sadness—not as an identity, but as a writer’s intimacy with vulnerability, self-doubt, and instinct. From there, the conversation opens into something deeper: the stories we tell ourselves that don’t serve us, and what it looks like to rewrite them.

Meg shares an unforgettable moment of meeting her inner critic head-on—visualizing a small red chair and asking that voice to sit down while she moved forward anyway. Lorien speaks candidly about imposter syndrome, the discomfort of receiving praise, and the belief that love has to be earned—then traces how her creative work is helping her practice hope in real time.

And then we land on the heart of the episode: joy as vulnerability. Meg offers a powerful reframe—true joy requires courage, because joy opens us up. It makes us visible. It asks us to hope. The two of them explore what it means to be observed again after the pandemic, how community reflects us back to ourselves, and why friendship can be genuinely life-saving.

You’ll also hear beautiful distinctions around self-acceptance vs. self-celebration, creative presence, and what “living in the moment” looks like when you’re someone who naturally lives in the future. We close with a playful “What makes you…?” lightning round—stress hunger, curiosity hunger, overwhelm-as-a-signpost, and the small ordinary moments that carry real joy.

If you’re navigating self-doubt, trying to receive the good that’s coming toward you, or learning how to choose hope without needing certainty—this one is a ge

If you are enjoying the show please subscribe, share and review! Word of mouth is incredibly impactful and your support is much appreciated!

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Listener Support
• 1:13 Meet Meg LeFauve And Laurian McKenna
• 2:17 Inside Out: Which Emotion Are You
• 5:08 Sadness, Joy, And Truth In Story
• 8:42 Serving The Story And Self-Stories
• 11:12 The Inner Critic And Imposter Syndrome
• 14:51 Accepting Praise And Authenticity
• 18:47 Joy, Cynicism, And Hopeful Work
• 21:59 Self-Acceptance Versus Self-Celebration
• 25:30 Community As Mirror And Lifeline
• 28:24 Compliments As Connection And Context
• 31:43 Living In The Moment
• 34:38 Rapid Fire: Hungry, Sad, Angry, Joy
• 37:13 Closing Reflections And Book CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:23

Hey there. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to leave a review and to follow or subscribe. Don't forget to share with anybody that you think might be interested. Your support is greatly appreciated. Word of mouth is incredibly powerful, and it's the best way for us to reach more people and grow this wonderful community. Thanks again for listening. This is the Stop Time Podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. So my next guests are brilliant storytellers who have worked both together as a team and separately on studio and indie films, live action and animation, and whose combined credits include, among much more, so please read the show notes, writing um and production on such films as The Good Dinosaur, Captain Marvel, Up, Brave, and Inside Out. Together they host an amazing podcast called The Screenwriting Life. So check that out. It is my great pleasure to introduce screenwriters Meg Lafov and Laurian McKenna. Welcome, ladies. Thank you. Thank you. So listen, I have been truly, really looking forward to this for so many reasons. Um thanks for joining me. I re-watched Inside Out last night, and I think it's safe to say that that film has touched so many of us. And I just wanted to ask you, just to jump in, just for the hell of it, to say what character would you say each of you most identifies with in the story? And that may change. I understand that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:09

Mine is disgust.

SPEAKER_00: 2:11

Okay. Tell me why.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

Well, um, I was working on the project, and you know, we do a lot of temp tracks as we record before we get the production voices in. And so I got to do the temp track for disgust. And I just had so much fun doing that. And, you know, I would joke around that I was being typecast. Uh, but I just had so much fun because she tells the truth through her lens. And I mean, they all tell the truth, but her truth is the one I most relate to, right? Finding the way to reduce it to like, oh no, right, which is sort of my, you know, avoid this, watch out. But disgust was the first person I thought of, uh, first character I thought of when you asked that question. It really is about telling the truth for me.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56

Very cool. Very cool. What about you, Meg?

SPEAKER_02: 3:00

Um trickier question for me as a writer because I had to embody all of the characters as you write, you become all of the characters, and so they all become a part of you and and they also become good friends in a way. It's a it's a it's a strange experience. But um I would say the one that I enjoyed writing the most, um, and I think that's because she felt closest to me was sadness. In terms of her reluctance to believe in her, I don't want to say even believe in herself, but believe in her instincts, um, kind of wanting other people to tell her where she should go and what she should do and what her place is, and kind of hungry for that. I think I grew up that way. And then finally deciding no, she's gonna step forward and drive. I I also, you know, the day that I was writing it and she just laid down. I was like, yeah, there she is. Um, so I loved writing sadness. And of course, the actress who played her was so much fun. I mean, I really want it the Amy Polar and Joy, I really do. But uh I am a positive person, but in my own cynical way.

SPEAKER_01: 4:07

I think it's so interesting. The choice is like disgust has such a strong point of view and is so willing to throw it out there that I so relate to that. And I I just love listening to you talk about how you relate to sadness as sort of the core, I recognize it as the core of who we are, right? Like, I mean, of course, it's all malleable and changeable and can change on the day, right? Like you said, but of all the characters, disgust is the one that I think any of my people would describe me most closely, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

Like, yeah, that's interesting. And Meg, do you think that um the people that know you would describe you as sadness if they had to pick one for you?

SPEAKER_02: 4:45

No, probably Lorian's shaking your head. Probably not. That's why, yeah. I'm having listen, I you want to have I can give a dissertation on fear. We can do that. I could totally do that. Um, I don't think women are taught to wield their anger. I don't think we're taught we're allowed to have it. So that's more murky for me in terms of, I mean, I can get mad, believe me. Just happened last night when my kid woke me up at three o'clock in the morning. But uh, you know, I'm not, I don't identify I wish I could identify war with it. I think your anger creates great boundaries for you. Um, I think anger serves a great purpose. But um, so I don't know. What would people say, Lorian? It doesn't know me. Riley.

SPEAKER_01: 5:22

Oh that's not you really, you really go on that journey. Like that's that's the core of who you are, right? That you start at the beginning, you go through all the hard stuff, and then at the end of it, you come to some really powerful place, right? I see that in all the projects you work on, I see that in our relationship, right? How you sort of mentor and coach me and are willing to mentor and coach other people. But I feel like, Riley, like you get to that piece of you're in that piece of self-realization, like you know who you are, right? And that's where Riley gets, right? Sort of the bravery to be like, this is where I am, meet me where I am.

SPEAKER_02: 6:00

And I think that's my truth, which is why you and I like each other, because Riley learns to speak her truth. And now that you say that, I feel a little tear in my eye. So now we're back to campus.

SPEAKER_01: 6:12

But I am still disgusting I am very deeply invested in that story of myself.

SPEAKER_00: 6:21

But it's interesting what Meg said, because you know, and I asked, and I was, you know, the the caveat in my head was absolutely that that depends on the moment, doesn't it? Because they're all really parts of us.

SPEAKER_02: 6:31

So if I I have found that when people talk to me about inside out and they talk to me about, oh, I cried, it's very interesting for me to say when did you cry? Because there's two places and different people, it tells me a lot about them when they cried. Do you know what I mean? Like in terms of what really deeply touched them. So if it's when Bing Bong died, there's this ache for that childhood self that they've they either lost or they don't have access to or whatever, which I don't personally have. I mean, I feel sad when Bing Bong dies, but I don't feel broken up by it. Versus other people talk about when Riley says to her parents, you want me to be happy, but I'm not. It's my uh uh place, my soft spot. And so it's just always interesting where the movie touches different people. And I think that's what's so great about Pixar, because so many people are making that movie. It's such a collaborative experience. I mean, it's Pete Doctor's movie, so ultimately it's also all driving towards his vision, but everybody's putting in their deep vulnerable selves. So there's so many touch points in those movies.

SPEAKER_00: 7:30

Yeah, no, 100%. And isn't it interesting that um that sadness, the character sadness, uh, probably makes us laugh the most, brings us the most joy. And and that joy learns the most through sadness in the in in the arc of the show. And I think that's that's really a poignant um thing.

SPEAKER_02: 7:53

Well, yeah, because ultimately she learns to accept her own sadness, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_00: 7:56

Well, yeah. And you know, I love that moment. It really stood out to me again, and maybe it's because when I first watched it, you know, I I was just experiencing it. And then when I watched it again through my lens of knowing I was going to speak with you, but also knowing um, you know, what I know as a as a coach now, and that through that lens, it's amazing what lens you're looking through, right? As you said, I mean, I could have had a bad day or an argument with my dad, I might have felt differently. Um, but last night when I saw it, and that that it was just so clear that sort of sadness, you need to stay, keep, you know, pushy little toe and stay in this circle.

SPEAKER_02: 8:29

Right. Oh, yeah, please. We do not want sadness on the journey.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

No, no. Meg, I know I know I've I I heard you talk about the importance of serving the story as as a guiding force, which I completely understand and recognize. Um, and I just I kind of wanted to ask you what stories you have been telling yourself that don't serve you, that you'd like a chance to rewrite.

SPEAKER_02: 8:55

I mean, you know, that's like you have to kind of go into what we call in our show the lava to even bring those stories into consciousness. I mean, I find writing uh it really does service that uh self-knowledge if you're not gonna go there and find out the stories you're telling yourself, either about yourself and your ability to be creative, your ability to write, your ability to do this job all the way down into the story in terms of your characters and the stories they're telling. That's what we talk about on our show so much with the writers, is that that's the work is figuring out what story you're telling yourself. I mean, I can tell you that I have a very large critic in my head, and it constantly is telling me that I can't do things. Um I remember one day I was going into an interview or and I was putting the money in the meter, and the critic was raging at me to not do this, do not go in that room, do not go in that meeting. And it really felt like death. It felt like a survival instinct, like you are going to die if you do this. You're not good enough, you can't do this, that you're gonna embarrass yourself, you've got the wrong shoes on, you're fat, whatever, right? And uh, I just remember distinctly picturing a little red chair in my head and saying, I thank you, first of all, because I know you're trying to save me, but you need to sit down and not come to this meeting with me and just watch because I'm gonna be okay. I'm going to, I'm gonna survive this. And uh, you know, I don't think that happens overnight that it will sit in the chair. But uh over time it gets easier to ask the critic to sit down. Um, you know, there's moments that of course it comes raging back. So uh imposter syndrome, I for sure have that. Um, the only other one I'd say that comes to mind as soon as you say that is that I'm not enough, that I have to prove something, that I have to do more, I have to somehow show that I'm uh enough. And it served me well. By the way, that belief has served me very well. It's not a negative thing necessarily, it can become a negative thing, right? It's kind of how you wield it. So, my I've been trying to learn as I get older how to wield that better. Uh, I I have a a photo on my computer of a female warrior, and it's more that she needs to stop fighting me and start fighting for me.

unknown: 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:13

Uh Laurian.

SPEAKER_01: 11:14

Thinking about this while I was listening to you talk, and so you're taking notes.

SPEAKER_00: 11:18

No.

SPEAKER_01: 11:19

All of mine are sort of this umbrella under imposter syndrome, which I think is an easy way to sort of with humor disregard a lot of the deeper stuff. I think under there is this belief system that, you know, I have to earn love. So then I I mask a lot of my pain with humor. I'm so hilarious, listen to this funny story, right? That's why I relate to disgust, right? She's funny, she has a point of view, but like, who is she emotionally, really? Right? Like, you know, she's protective, of course, but there's more depth to her. I just, I just relate to the surface level, right? I also have this profound and scary lack of ability to take compliments. Um, it's like I desperately want compliments and attention and acknowledgement. And then the second I get it, if I feel like it's out of proportion of what I've earned, I freak out, right? I my brain splits in half. I don't know how to process it. Is this okay? Am I allowed to accept this? This seems weird. Like what I've done seems out of proportion with the acknowledgement that I'm getting. And I don't know how to process that. I'm fairly self-aware about my stuff and I can talk about it. Um, I even sat down once and you know, named my Greblin, the bitchy mommy wife, right? And I gave her some work. I wrote it down, I have it here on my desk, but I don't follow through with that. I don't yet know how to dig into that and do the work to support that. I just keep moving, right? My coping mechanism is just keep moving, keep busy, keep going. And then it's a distraction from having to sit in that and really figure out what that is. So yeah, I have a lot of narratives I tell myself. Um, something that I really struggle with though is getting attention for something I've done and being able to embrace it.

SPEAKER_00: 13:11

No, that that makes that makes really, really good sense. Something I noticed was you said um you sort of pointed out a couple of times that, and I I don't know how to handle that when I get praise. I don't is would it be true to say that you've had praise in the past? So you've experienced not knowing how to handle it, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:28

This morning. I just I just got some this morning and I had to call Meg to tell her and laugh about how funny it was. And Meg was like, I call bullshit.

SPEAKER_02: 13:37

I'm like, you weren't laughing about how funny it was. You were like, that was it just made me so uncomfortable. Like that's weird, right? It's weird for someone to say that. And I was like, no, it's not weird at all.

SPEAKER_00: 13:45

And what's so cool about that is you handled it. I think the the issue is not that you don't know how to handle it. Perhaps maybe you don't like the way you handle it, or perhaps you'd like to handle it differently. I don't know, but I mean you're handling it in your own way.

SPEAKER_01: 14:00

I hear what you're saying. What I would like to be able to do, yes, I handled it. I heard it, I processed it, I've moved on. Like it didn't blow me out. I'm not lying down on the ground crying, eating potato chips, right? Which is my go-to. But I I wish I could find a way where I could hear that and believe that I earned that, right? I know the people who are giving me the compliment are being truthful. Like I don't think they're, I just feel like, but do they really know me? Like they wouldn't believe say that if they really knew, right? It's that sort of narrative about this disbelief about who I am, and yet I barrel through the world doing whatever I want. So, like my actions, how I act in the world, how I am, what I can get done, totally belie this belief I have about myself. So, and this is the struggle with writing too for me, is that I write a lot about women who are confronting their own internalized misogyny, who are confronting their demons, whether they're people in their lives or imaginary demons. Like I'm processing this as I write. So it feels like a very active thing. I'm in it, I'm writing about it. And I don't know that there's a solution to it. I think, you know, where it's something I can um continue to think about and process. I don't know if I believe like one day I'm gonna be able to get a compliment and be like, yes, right. And fully internally, emotionally, and all the ways embrace it.

SPEAKER_00: 15:32

No, I was just gonna ask you why is that important to you?

SPEAKER_01: 15:35

Because I like the idea that I am enough as I am right now, and that I don't have to constantly be working to make myself better. That that that right now, today, this is where I am, and I can acknowledge these struggles and I can reflect on them, but like the work I'm doing today is enough. I don't like getting to the end of the day and feeling like I didn't do enough to fix, right? So this is this is sort of how I'm trying to process where I am right now.

SPEAKER_00: 16:08

Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. That's it's it's brilliant and it's totally totally valid. I mean, that that's your experience, and and it kind of makes sense that there's a dissonance between that that space between getting praise and being able to accept it. With there's also that idea of you should be able, I'm sure that you're you come from a very compassionate place too, so that when you're given an offering of praise, even though you don't believe it, which is another issue, right? Then your instinct, your natural thing is to at least accept it. But that probably doesn't feel right either because you don't believe it, which speaks to probably a deeper value of yours, which is being maybe authentic or whatever that might be. These are all signposts, right? Like all these feel, these strong feelings that we have, they're just so important. You know, like we can't go around with toxic positivity all the time. I mean, I'm definitely Joy. I mean, I definitely identify with her, but my my disgust used to come with either myself in that I couldn't move people with my positivity. So that would frustrate me. You're like, but I'm positive, so everything should be, you know, it's it's it's so fascinating.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

I think it's so interesting what you're talking about because I uh sort of lean into my cynicism. And then people who are joyful, I'm like, what? This seems really suspicious to me. So it's like, why are you so happy? Let me tell you the truth about the world. I have stopped doing that. And right now I'm working on a project that really is about joy and hope and love. And so it's this shift for me about telling the story that is like, oh, this can be all joy and hope and love and kindness and compassion, and that's okay, right? That I can sort of live in that and I'm really excited about it and I'm really proud of it, and it's helping to shift some of that cynicism off for now. We'll see. Talk to me again in a couple of months.

SPEAKER_02: 18:01

I will. You know, feeling joyful is a very vulnerable thing to do.

SPEAKER_00: 18:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_02: 18:06

I mean, we all think, oh, I want to be happy, I want to be happy, I want to be happy, not realizing that that true happiness, i.e., joyfulness versus, you know, quote unquote happy, but joyfulness is a very vulnerable experience. And it's something I've been doing research on. And it's uh it takes bravery to be truly joyful. That to me spreads in the world in a beautiful way if you can be brave enough to be joyful.

SPEAKER_01: 18:29

I think it's the hope piece, right? The way this project is constructed is that it is about giving tools for how to have hope and to believe in yourself and to believe that you don't have to earn love, right? So I get to sort of pass this on, um, and you know, investigate my own, which has helped me be able to name that. Oh, because I kept talking about this is a project about giving kids the tools to believe that they don't have to earn love. And then I was like, oh, wait a minute, why do I feel so passionately about that? And then I'm like, oh no, there it is. That's my problem, right? Which I which I sort of put under the umbrella of imposter syndrome, right? It's easy to stack so much under imposter syndrome without getting specific about what it is under there. And so it was like, oh, it's earning love. I believe I have to earn love, right? So it's fun to get to play in this hopeful space, um, which feels vulnerable and a little dangerous, but I'm so glad I have the ability to do this. So I'm very proud of this project.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

That's so exciting. P.S. You look joyful when you're talking about it. From my perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 19:40

I usually always look joyful. That is oh my god, that's my great gift is that I can say really terrible things, but have like a smile on.

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

No, no, I don't mean that you look like because you're smiling joyfully.

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

No, no, no. Oh, it's different. I see you're calling out the item.

SPEAKER_02: 19:59

But see what happens? You're like, no, no, no, let me explain to you why I did not.

SPEAKER_00: 20:05

But also, like in your defense, uh, with that reaction, is that we need to get way more granular with the words we use. Like, joy to you is different than joy to me, which is different than joy to Meg or all our listeners. And how you define joy is personal, and that vulnerability that you're speaking to is absolutely it's it's It's personal. I mean, I I wrote this whole piece about um courage. I mean, courage, to have the courage to not show that you've been courageous or to be courageous about something that is is of import to you that maybe doesn't seem like to anyone else, but you know, if you listen, that you know the knowing, and to not have to share that or show that as a badge of honor or courage is to go, God, I, you know, really felt horrible doing that. And then not telling anybody and and living with yourself. And to me, again, this is my you know, my definition. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 20:55

I think what's so interesting about that is, you know, um, I've been thinking a lot about, you know, I have opportunity to go into an office space right now, like leave my house. And what I'm really struggling with is this idea that I will be observed once again, that I don't get to control it in the little Zoom box anymore, that I will be fully physically observed. And um, what that means from just a physical place, but also like to that point, the holistic place. Like so much of what I've been doing my whole life is about getting acknowledgement, right? Trying to get that, which is what you're talking about, right? Like, I did this thing, please see me. Please see that I did this thing. We want so desperately to be seen. So I've been thinking a lot about that, the sort of the power of allowing yourself to be observed and what that means. I don't know the answers. I've just been thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02: 21:47

I do find though, as as I age, uh, I I care less about how other people see me. There's a claiming of it. I think partally, partially that's moving out of the stage of so much of your value being and how attractive you are to other people. And there's a loss and a sadness in passing out of that, but there's also a great gift. I'm not saying I don't want to, I don't want to age beautifully. Of course I do. I I love my hair and my body and my and I'm still gonna dye my hair, but I'm just I don't want that to be my centering anymore. I want my centering to be what I have to give. And you can say I want that, or you can say I don't. But whether you don't want, if you don't want it, it has nothing to do with what I'm giving you. You know what I mean? Or what I'm offering, or what I have the right now, at this moment in time, I have this much to give and no more. All of that is okay. All of that is what you are actually that's called maturity to me. Like I feel like I'm just starting at this age to mature into a mature adult female perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 22:54

I hear you. I really do. It's really, I mean, except you're talking about self-acceptance, really, ultimately. And to sort of just say, I'm just tired of trying to live up to it's tiring.

SPEAKER_02: 23:03

I mean, who it's so funny because I I hear self-acceptance and I still get a little quiver, and I'm like, well, what's that about? Why am I quivering over those words? If we're talking about getting specific, like to me, it's about self-celebration or like how cool we are. Like, I can look at Lorian, I can look at my sister Beth, I can look at my friend Annie, I can look at all these amazing women around me. And I just see these incredible, light, powerful beings. Like I just, they are just blasting power, right? Um, and yet every person I know still at some time will speak so small about themselves. Do you know what I mean? And that it's a very disongruous experience sometimes, right? I accept myself, but it's more than that. It's about celebrating yourself. It's about being here with purpose. It's about being here to give something. It's about being here to start a ripple. Do you know what I mean? Like it's an active, it's an active experience that I uh want to start putting into the world versus a kind of like self-acceptance closed down internal thing. I don't know. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00: 24:07

That's cool. I yeah, I th I appreciate the clarification. Um, I see it the way you do. I'm absolutely 100% aboard with the way you just described it. It was it was beautifully described, but I do understand what you mean. It's not a silo, it's not sort of a go off on a mountain and get to know yourself kind of moment. It's it's uh actually just you know be yourself, share, share it, energize it, feel it, let it in. It's reciprocal too, right? I mean, it's like you said, it's sort of the ripple effect.

SPEAKER_02: 24:31

It's got that how you know yourself is how you're interacting and the conversation you're having with the universe and the world and what it's bringing and what you're I think.

SPEAKER_01: 24:39

Adding to that, what you touched upon is having friends to and not to get acknowledgement from, but to do that thing you said, which is reflect you back to you in a different way, and whether that's your family or a coach or a community, having that is so important. It is the thing I need all the time, right? I can say here, I'm feeling vulnerable about this, and then I get different kinds of responses like, yes, that sucks, or have you tried this? Or, you know, um, this is how I see you, you know, being specific about what you need in that vulnerable moment and then getting it back from different people is just for me, I I don't want to be too hyperbolic about it, but life-saving. I don't know how not to be in a community. That's so important for me to have be able to call Meg and say, I got this amazing compliment. I'm devastated. And for her to reflect back a different way to look at that, or you know, hey, you're you're actually you've moved past that. Let's look at it in a different way.

SPEAKER_02: 25:36

What's so beautiful is that you are brave enough or or self-aware enough to say, hey, this is what I need. It sounds hyperbolic, but it's life-saving to me. I need community. And then because of your ability to be with that, accept it, and it now gives purpose, you've created community, Lorien. It is that your need, therefore, has created this thing in the world that's moving and giving so much to other people, right? So somehow our rejection of our own needs, of our own inner grumbly, gritty stuff because it's not appropriate, it's not wanted, it's whatever voice in your head is telling you. But your your impact in the world is sitting inside that need. Like it's interesting that that need you feel is also your superpower.

SPEAKER_01: 26:24

I can take that compliment because I see what's happening in the communities, right? I see that I am a community builder because I see that the effort I put into it um is affecting people in such a positive way. I have to figure this out. This is holding me back in a really just kind of bummer out way. Like I'm tired of telling this joke. I can't take a compliment, right? I'm tired of I'm tired of that being part of my narrative.

SPEAKER_00: 26:50

First of all, let's celebrate you because you you were able to acknowledge that you received something from Meg.

SPEAKER_01: 26:56

Stop complimenting me.

SPEAKER_00: 26:58

No, but stop. Actually, I'm not that's not a that's not a fact. The the fact is that you received it, you said it. Yeah, I I'm not that's not my perception. You said to us that I'm able to accept that, and then you went on to explain why. And we're allowed to celebrate you, whether you or not. That's our choice. So um, what would it look like if to you? Because it's different to you. What would accepting a compliment look like to you?

SPEAKER_01: 27:28

I think that's a really good question because I don't know. I think I would have to work on the world and myself in that world where that was true, right? Like just like I work on a TV show, just like I work on building characters and the world that they're in and their transformation. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. I will have to um make a Pinterest board and see what that looks and feels like. Like what colors are there, who's around me. Uh yeah, I don't think I've ever thought about that because I'm I'm in the sort of negation phase, right? I can't do it. I don't do it. That's not my identity. So I don't know. Who am I if I take a compliment?

SPEAKER_02: 28:13

And um, I definitely used to be super uncomfortable about it, felt very dangerous. Like, okay, but when's the other shoe gonna drop? You know, that that kind of thing. That survival instinct oddly came up um for me. Usually people's compliments are about themselves and something that they've been touched by, right? That that has moved them. So, you know, when people walk up and talk about inside out and my son is nonverbal, and now he can I can know what his emotions are because he can pick up the figures and talk to me about it. And you you're a genius, and you wrote this, and I'm just like, oh my God, like thank you. I actually thank you because that was hard that to write that and and do that movie, as you know, Lorian. Like that was fucking hard. So yeah, thanks. And it's a it's a connecting moment. A compliment is often a connecting moment, and I'm sure there's some that I would not take, but still, but there is a way to see it as uh a way that it's a connection versus a vulnerable kind of the new next shoe is gonna drop.

SPEAKER_01: 29:10

I can look at it that way, as that the compliment is someone else's experience that I've sort of helped bring about. Like I don't have to have ownership of their response to me in some way, right? You get to own that. Your response to me and your experience of something I put out in the world is yours. So I can live with it that way rather than something I have to take into my body. Like I don't have to take another person in there with me. I can just be like, oh, I'm glad that, you know. I think I think that's what it is. I like a specificity, like my son can now communicate with me rather than just like, I'm a huge fan of your podcast. Like that one always feels like, ooh, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

No, actually, that makes a lot of sense because people give feedback very freely and often without a lot of thought. So if someone came to you and said, What I like about your podcast is dot, dot, dot, I bet you that you would probably feel a little more connected and therefore a little more open to resisting.

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

Yeah, because that's that's a conversation, just like criticism, like even notes, feedback on a project. It's well, this bumped for me. Okay, well, what bumped? Let's get into that. Let's get the specifics, right? You can I can easily dismantle and dig into feedback on a project that I need to solve a problem in, but like big wide uh compliments feel like I don't feel like I have the right to be like, tell me what you really liked about it, right? Like it feels like it's just no, it's hard.

SPEAKER_00: 30:41

And we've been taught, we've been taught, you know, since we're little kids to when someone says something, you say thank you. Like what like we just do it by rote, right? So if someone says something nice, you go thank you. If someone says doesn't say something nice, then you ignore them, right? You know, I I say get curious all around and everybody benefits.

SPEAKER_02: 31:01

So I don't know because when when I got a chance to meet Meryl Streep, and by meat, I mean she was walking by and this PR person I was with, I was like, Oh my god, can I please meet Meryl Streep? And she like was like, Meryl! And she literally turned around for two seconds. So this is me, right? This isn't one of these academy run moments, and I was I I literally all I could say was I'm such a huge fan. Like, I that's all I could say. I have a wealth of reasons for that tiny statement, right? Yeah, I have images, I have moments, I have so many things, and that's all I could get out.

SPEAKER_01: 31:36

That was your experience at that moment, the sum of your experience of knowing her work was that I'm such a fan of your work.

SPEAKER_00: 31:43

We always have to take into consideration context, right? So, so when things like that happen, yeah, I'm sure that in retrospect, you're going, shit, why could I not have done? I was I didn't say any of it. Well, because in the context of things, you knew that she only had a moment, and you chose you did the best, you know. We really believe this. You do we do the very best we can in any given moment. We do. That in retrospect, you might go, Jesus, I should have said something that would have like hooked her so she would have stayed longer. But you were there, it happened suddenly, and you something just came out of your mouth, but you have all this contextual information because you're a smart human being and you're intuitive, that she doesn't have time to have the conversation that you want to have with her. So you were only really able to give her one offering, right? I'm sure that you would have had you she said, Do you want to sit down and talk?

SPEAKER_02: 32:34

I probably would have gone blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you know what I mean? No, but what's interesting because I think we have these rules in our heads of, well, if I had been clever enough, then for sure this would have happened and then that would happen, and then she would have wanted to act in a movie that I was writing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, like the it just goes down like dominoes. And yet I had an experience, which I won't get into with JJ Abrams when I was just starting writing, that was deeply impactful to my life in terms of he did actually stop and talk to me and encourage me and blah blah. And he, I got it. I that thing happened. When I saw him five years later, he has no memory of this at all. Like it didn't even, like he literally none, because of why would he? By the way, why would he? Why would he? Not like this everything I said, like suddenly had this lasting impression. So that later he no, you guys, we're making up stories all the time. We can make up the good ones and we can make up the bad ones, right? We can make up the good ones. And if I only would have, then this great stuff would have happened. No, that's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00: 33:33

Oh, the stories we tell ourselves. And so, guys, what what is your definition of living in the moment? I've got to ask you that. Meg, do you want to go first? In the fall.

SPEAKER_02: 33:43

I was just thinking this today, how much I live in the future. I'm always dreaming forward. I'm a writer. My superpower is dreaming. And that dreaming is my work and the stories, but I do it with my future too, right? Like, where do I want to go? Where do I want to be? You know, this at this age, where do I want to be in 10 years? Both for myself as a passionate creative artist, as a community builder, which I have found this great partner, Laura, in doing as a parent of a special needs child, I do dream a lot into the future, but I do also need to find ways to stay present. Like I wish I could meditate. I really do. But until I have given up my job, I don't see how I will ever have the discipline to do it. Um, how do I stay present? I I take a lot of walks, and I find the best way for me to do it is to look at the sky. Um, but you know, I will be honest, it's tiring. It's very tiring because I feel like I'm often asked as a mother and a woman to stay present to hold the space for other people. So I'm using all of my ability to stay present for others, which is a gift and it is my it is my life's purpose. I believe I come from a long line of teachers. I believe this is part of the reason I'm in the I'm here manifesting right now is to create this space for others. But I have to be super careful because I'm not doing it for myself. Uh I have that's where I'm trying to stay present.

SPEAKER_00: 35:22

Yeah, no, absolutely. And Lorian, what about you?

SPEAKER_01: 35:27

Um, for me, it's about connecting my head and my body.

SPEAKER_00: 35:33

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 35:33

Um, because I can just live in my head all the time, right? Like, and when I'm in my head, I can pay attention. I'm not like it's tiring, but you know, right now I'm paying attention to this. I'm gonna get off this call, I'm gonna go pay attention to something else and hopefully not get distracted by a bunch of other things while I'm focusing on that next thing. I yeah, I and I I struggle with this, like I don't know how to meditate, I don't know that it's for me necessarily. But I I responded to what you said about needing to, which is what I was talking about earlier, about this idea that we're always expected to do more. Fix yourself. You're not enough, you need to do this, right? That's the part where I feel like I don't always want to be churning on the processing of myself. Sometimes I just want to get to the end of the day and be like, I had a day. That's it. I don't want to dig into the muck and the gunk and the gio. I just want to get there and be. Um, maybe that's how I live in the moment is that I can just get to a place where I'm like, shh, brain, stop beating me up.

SPEAKER_00: 36:36

Yeah, fair enough. All right, before you go, we we play this game called What Makes You. And then you just say kind of what comes to mind. What makes you hungry? Real hunger, whatever comes to mind.

SPEAKER_02: 36:48

Uh stress. Stress makes me hungry. Uh, I would say stress makes me hungry in terms of that kind of hunger that I isn't the most positive. And then the positive hunger would be um curiosity.

SPEAKER_01: 37:00

What makes you sad? My husband's health.

SPEAKER_02: 37:04

Uh what makes me sad is um overwhelm. I find when I get overwhelmed, I'm actually getting I get sad. It's a it's a it's a good signpost for me.

SPEAKER_00: 37:13

What makes you angry, Laurian?

SPEAKER_02: 37:17

Not being heard. Uh what makes me angry? Ignorance.

SPEAKER_00: 37:21

And uh Laurian, what what frightens you?

SPEAKER_02: 37:27

Not being enough. Uh what frightens me is not being certain of my special needs son's future.

SPEAKER_00: 37:33

Great. And what brings you joy, Laurian?

SPEAKER_01: 37:36

Well, right now, what brings me joy is working on this project I'm working on and getting to go and be with a room full of writers and just coming up with ideas and sort of being in that creative churn with other people.

SPEAKER_00: 37:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 37:48

And for me, it's friendship. You know, when I hadn't talked to Laura in a little while and hearing her voice this morning, I was like, I just had a spark of joy. It's like, oh my God, there she is.

SPEAKER_00: 37:57

Oh, that's lovely. And finally, what are the top three things that happened so far today?

SPEAKER_02: 38:02

Today.

SPEAKER_00: 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:03

Today. Uh, we my son and I went to California Pizza Kitchen and got our free Dodger pizza because the Dodgers won last night. I did the laundry and uh I did in some writing that I did this morning.

SPEAKER_00: 38:15

Great. What about you, Laura?

SPEAKER_01: 38:18

We got really positive network feedback on some content we delivered. My daughter and my husband made a three-minute horror movie and showed it to me. And yeah, getting to talk to Meg this morning.

SPEAKER_00: 38:33

Beautiful. Ladies, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today. It's been a distinct pleasure, really unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02: 38:40

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 38:43

I really appreciate you. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate you. I've been speaking today with Meg LaFauve and Laurian McKenna. Thanks for listening. Stay safe and healthy, everyone, and remember to live in the moment. In music, stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison, supporting the soloists to express their individuality. In the moment, I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I invite you to dive deeper into cultivating a life of creative possibilities with my new book, The Places Where There Are Spaces. It's filled with personal stories and insights to help you embrace living in the moment. You can grab your copy by following the link in the show notes or wherever books are sold. Let's keep the conversation going and growing.