Meg LeFauve & Lorien McKenna: Brave Enough To Be Joyful

Join Lisa for this "animated" conversation with Hollywood screenwriting mavens Meg LeFauve & Lorien McKenna.

Meg LeFauve  was nominated for a Best Screenplay Oscar for the Pixar blockbuster INSIDE OUT,  she won an Annie Award for that screenplay.  Meg also wrote Pixar’s Golden Globe nominated THE GOOD DINOSAUR.  She also wrote on Marvel’s box office hit, CAPTAIN MARVEL. LeFauve is currently has a series in development for a major studio, as well as a film in production at Netflix- the animated film MY FATHER’S DRAGON. LeFauve began her film career as a producer and President of Egg Pictures, Jodie Foster's film company. During that time, LeFauve produced films which were nominated for an Emmy, a Golden Globe, and she was awarded a Peabody for the Showtime film, “The Baby Dance.”  LeFauve also produced “The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys” which won the 2003 IFP Spirit Award for Best First Feature. Raised in Warren, Ohio, LeFauve graduated from the Syracuse University Newhouse School and currently lives in Studio City, California with her husband and two sons.

Lorien McKenna has written for studios, streamers, and indie films including Hulu, NBC, and Disney. She is currently in development with ViacomCBS on animated tv show. She co-hosts the podcast The Screenwriting Life w/Meg LeFauve and Lorien McKenna. The show, produced by Jeffrey Graham, is dedicated to unpacking both the craft and artistic journey of pursuing a career in screenwriting.  A former Story Manager at Pixar Animation Studios, McKenna worked on UP, BRAVE, INSIDE OUT and THE GOOD DINOSAUR. She was also the Associate Producer for Paramount Animation’s WONDER PARK and the Co-EP for CURIOUS GEORGE. After getting her MFA in Playwriting, she founded Guilty Theater and taught playwriting, Shakespeare and Theater at St. Mary’s College of California.  She lives in Glendale, CA with her husband and daughter. 

Links:

Facebook: @TheScreenwritingLife 

Instagram: @the_screenwriting_life

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Transcript

Lisa Hopkins: 0:23

This is the stop time podcast. I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at. So my next guests are brilliant storytellers who have worked both together as a team and separately on studio and indie films, live action and animation and whose combined credits include among much more, so please read the show notes, writing, and production on such films as The Good Dinosaur Captain Marvel up brave and inside out. Together, they host an amazing podcast called the screenwriting life. So check that out. It is my great pleasure to introduce screenwriters Meg LeFauve, and Lorien. McKenna. Welcome, ladies. Thank you. Thank you. So listen, I have been truly, really looking forward to this for so many reasons. So thanks for joining me, I rewatched"Inside Out" last night. And I think it's safe to say that that film has touched so many of us. And I just wanted to ask you just to jump in just for and ask what character would you say, each of you most identifies with in the story? And that may change I understand that.

Lorien McKenna: 1:45

Mine is disgust.

Lisa Hopkins: 1:47

Okay, tell me why?

Lorien McKenna: 1:50

Well, I was working on the project. And you know, we do a lot of temp tracks, as we record before we get the production voices in. And so I got to do the temp track for disgust. And I just had so much fun doing that. And, you know, I would joke around that I was being typecast. But I just had so much fun because she tells the truth through her lens. And I mean, they all tell the truth. But her truth is the one I most relate to right? Finding the way to reduce it to like, Oh, no, right, which is sort of my you know, avoid this watch out. But disgust was the first person I thought of first character I thought of when you ask that question, it really is about telling the truth for me.

Lisa Hopkins: 2:32

Very cool. Very cool. What about you, Meg?

Meg LeFauve: 2:37

Trickier question for me as a writer, because I had to embody all of the characters as you write, you become all of the characters and so they all become a part of you. And, and they also become good friends. In a way it's a it's a strange experience. But um, I would say the one that I enjoyed writing the most. And I think that's because she felt closest to me with sadness. In terms of her reluctance to believe in her I don't want to even believe in herself, but believe in her instincts, kind of wanting other people to tell her where she should go and what she should do and what her places and kind of hungry for that I think I grew up that way. And then finally decided, no, she's gonna step forward and drive. I also, you know, the day that I was writing, and she just laid down, I was like, yeah, there she is.So I loved writing sadness. And of course, the actress who played her was so much fun. I mean, I really wanted the be Amy Poehler and joy, I really do.I'm a positive person, but in my own cynical way.

Lorien McKenna: 3:43

I think it's so interesting, the choice is like, disgust has such a strong point of view, and is so willing to throw it out there that I so relate to that, and I just love listening to you talk about how you relate to sadness as sort of the core. I recognize it as the core of who we are. Right? Like, I mean, of course, it's all malleable and changeable and can change on the day, right, like you said, but of all the characters disgust is the one that I think any of my people would describe me most closely, you know?

Lisa Hopkins: 4:13

Yeah, that's interesting. And Meg, do you think that the people that know you would describe you as sadness if they had to pick one for you know, (Lorien is shaking her head)

Meg LeFauve: 4:23

Probably not. That's why. Yeah, I'm, listen, if you want to, I can give a dissertation on fear. We can do that. I could totally do that.I don't think women are taught to wield their anger. I don't think we're taught we're allowed to have it. So that's more murky for me in terms of, I mean, I can get mad Believe me just happened last night when my kid woke me up at three o'clock in the morning. But, uh, you know, I'm not I don't I don't I wish I could identify more with it. I think your anger creates great boundaries for you. I think anger serves a great purpose. But so I don't know, what would people say lorien. If that know me?

Lorien McKenna: 4:57

Riley. Really, you really go on that journey? Like that's, that's the core of who you are right? That you start at the beginning. You go through all the hard stuff, and then at the end of it, you come to some really powerful place. Right? I see that in all the projects you work on. I see that in our relationship, right how you sort of mentor and coach me and are willing to mentor and coach other people, but I feel like Riley like you get to that piece of you're in that piece of self realization, like you know who you are right. And that's the route Riley gets right? Sort of the bravery to be like, this is where I am. Meet me where I am.

Meg LeFauve: 5:36

I think that's my truth, which is why you and I like each other because rarely take her truth. And now that you say that I feel a little tear in my eyes. So now we're back to sadness.

Lorien McKenna: 5:49

But I am still disgust. I am very deeply invested in that story of myself.

Lisa Hopkins: 5:57

But it's interesting, what Meg said because you know, when I asked, and I was, you know, the caveat in my head was absolutely that that depends on the moment, because not, because they're all really parts of us.

Meg LeFauve: 6:08

I found that when people talk to me about inside out, and they talk to me about oh, I cried, it's very interesting for me to say, when did you cry? Because there's two places and different people, it tells me a lot about them. When they cry, do you don't I mean, like in terms of what really deeply touched them. So if it's when Bing Bong died, there's this ache for that childhood self that they either lost, or they don't have access to or whatever, which I don't personally have. I mean, I feel sad when the mom dies, but I don't feel broken up by it, versus other people talk about when Riley says to her parents, you want me to be happy, but I'm not is my place my soft spot. And so it's just always interesting, where the movie touches different people. And I think that's what's so great about Pixar, because so many people are making that movie. It's such a collaborative experience. I mean, it's Pete doctors movie. So ultimately, it's all driving towards his vision. But everybody's putting in their deep, vulnerable self. So there's so many touch points in those movies.

Lisa Hopkins: 7:06

Yeah, no. 100%. And isn't it interesting that sadness, the character, sadness, probably makes us laugh - that most brings us the most joy. And, that joy learns the most through sadness in the arc of the show. And I think, that's really a poignant thing.

Meg LeFauve: 7:29

Well, yeah, she learns to accept her own sadness, doesn't she?

Lisa Hopkins: 7:32

Well, yeah. And you know, I love that moment, it really stood out to me again, and maybe it's because when I first watched it, you know, I was just experiencing it. And then when I watched it, again, through my lens of knowing I was going to speak with you, but also knowing, you know, what I know, as a coach now, and that through that lens, it's amazing what lens you're looking through, right? As you said, I mean, I could have had a bad day or argument with my dad, I might have felt differently.But last night, when I saw it, that was just so clear, that sort of sadness, you need to stay keep, you know, push your little toe and stay in this circle.

Meg LeFauve: 8:06

Oh, yeah, please, do not want sadness on the journey.

Lisa Hopkins: 8:08

No, no. Meg, I've heard you talk about the importance of serving the story as as a guiding force, which I completely understand and recognize. And I just kind of wanted to ask you what stories you've been telling yourself, that don't serve you that you'd like a chance to rewrite.

Meg LeFauve: 8:31

I mean, you know, that's like, you have to kind of go into what we call in our show the lava to even bring those stories into consciousness. I mean, I find writing really does service that self knowledge, if you're not going to go there and find out the stories, you're telling yourself, either about yourself and your ability to be creative, your ability to write your ability to do this job, all the way down into the story in terms of your characters, and the stories they're telling. That's what we talk about on our show so much with the writers is that that's the work is figuring out what story you're telling yourself. I mean,I can tell you that I have a very large critic in my head, and it constantly is telling me that I can't do things. I remember one day I was going into an interview or I was putting the money in the meter and the critic was raging at me to not do this do not go in that room do not go in that meeting. And it really felt like death, it felt like a survival instinct, like you are going to die. If you do this, you're not good enough. You can't do this, it's you're gonna embarrass yourself, you've got the wrong shoes on your fat, whatever, right? And I just remember distinctly picturing a little red chair in my head and saying, I thank you, first of all, because I know you're trying to save me, but you need to sit down and not come to this meeting with me and just watch because I'm going to be okay, I'm going to I'm going to survive this. And, you know, I don't think that happens overnight that it will sit in the chair. But over time, it gets easier to ask the critic to sit down. You know, there's moments that of course it comes reaching back. So, imposter syndrome, I for sure have that. The only other one I'd say that comes to mind as soon as you say that is that I'm not enough that I have to prove something that I have to do more I have to somehow show that I'm enough and it serves me well, by the way, that belief has served me very well. It's not a negative thing necessarily. It can become a negative thing, right. It's kind of how you wield it. So my, I've been trying to learn as I get older how to wield that better. I have a photo on my computer of a female warrior. And it's more that she needs to stop fighting me and start fighting for me.

Lisa Hopkins: 10:46

Hmm, Lorien?

Lorien McKenna: 10:50

Thinking about this while I was listening to you, all of mine are sort of this umbrella under imposter syndrome, which I think is an easy way to sort of with humor disregard a lot of the deeper stuff being under there is this belief system that you know, I have to earn love. So then I, I mask a lot of my pain with humor. I'm so hilarious. Listen to this funny story, right? That's why I relate to disgust. Right? She's funny. She has a point of view. But like, Who is she emotionally Really? Right. Like, you know, she's protective, of course, but there's more depth to her, I just, I just relate to the surface level, right? I also have this profound and scary lack of ability to take compliment. It's like I desperately want compliments, and attention and acknowledgement. And then the second I get it, if I feel like it's out of proportion of what I've earned, I freak out. Right? My brain splits in half. I don't know how to process it. Is this okay? Am I allowed to accept this? This seems weird, like, what I've done seems out of proportion with the the acknowledgement that I'm getting, and I don't know how to process that. I'm fairly self self aware about my stuff, and I can talk about it. I even sat down once and you know, named my Gremlin, the bitchy mommy wife writes, and I gave her some work, I wrote it down, I have it here on my desk. But I don't follow through with that. I don't yet know how to dig into that and do the work to support that I just keep moving. Right? My coping mechanism is just keep moving, keep busy, keep going. And then it's a distraction from having to sit in that and really figure out what that is. So yeah, I have a lot of narratives. I tell myself, um, something that I really struggle with, though, is getting attention for something I've done, and being able to embrace it.

Lisa Hopkins: 12:47

No, that makes that makes really, really good sense. Something I noticed was you said, you sort of pointed out a couple of times that and I don't know how to handle that when I get praise? I don't what it is, would it be true to say that you've had praise in the past, so you've experienced not knowing how to handle it right?

Lorien McKenna: 13:04

This morning. I just, I just got some this morning. And I had to call Meg to tell her and laugh about how funny it was. And Meg was like I call bullshit. And like you were laughing about how funny it was. You were like, that was just made me so uncomfortable. Like, that's weird, right? It's weird for them to say that.

Meg LeFauve: 13:19

I was like, No, it's not weird at all.

Lisa Hopkins: 13:21

What's so cool about that is you handled it. I think the issue is not that you don't know how to handle it. Perhaps maybe you don't like the way you handle it? Or perhaps you'd like to handle it differently? I don't know. But I mean you're handling it in your own way.

Lorien McKenna: 13:36

I hear what you're saying what I would like to be able to do yes, I handled it. I heard it, I processed it. I've moved on like it didn't blow me out. I'm not lying down on the ground, crying eating potato chips, right, which is my go to. But I wish I could find a way where I could hear that. And believe that I earned that. Right? I know the people who are giving me the compliment are being truthful. Like I don't think they're I just feel like but do they really know me? Like they wouldn't believe say that if they really knew, right? It's that sort of narrative about this disbelief about who I am. And yet, I barrel through the world doing whatever I want. So like my actions, how I act in the world, how I am what I can get done, totally belie this belief I have about myself. So and this is the struggle with writing too, for me is that I write a lot about women who are confronting their own internalized misogyny, who are confronting their demons, whether they're people in their lives or imaginary demons, like I'm processing this as I write. So it feels like a very active thing. I'm in it, I'm writing about it. I don't know that there's a solution to it. I think you know, where it's something I can continue to think about and process. I don't know if I believe like one day, I'm going to be able to get a compliment and be like, yes. Right and fully internally, emotionally and all the ways embrace it.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:08

No, I was just gonna ask you why why is that important to you?

Lorien McKenna: 15:11

Because I like the idea that I am enough as I am right now. And that I don't have to constantly be working to make myself better. But that that right now, today this is where I am. And I can acknowledge these struggles, and I can reflect on them. But like, the work I'm doing today is enough. I don't like getting to the end of the day and feeling like I didn't do enough to fix. Right. So this is this is sort of how I'm trying to process where I am right now.

Lisa Hopkins: 15:44

Yeah, no, no, thank you for sharing that. That's, it's brilliant. And it's totally, totally valid. I mean, that's your experience. And, and it kind of makes sense that there's a dissonance between that, that space between getting praise and being able to accept it with there's also that idea of, you should be able to ensure that you're you come from a very compassionate place to so that when you're given an offering of praise, even though you don't believe it, which is another issue, right? Then your instinct, your natural thing is to at least accept it. But that probably doesn't feel right either because you don't believe it, which speaks to probably have deeper value of yours, which is being maybe authentic, or whatever that might be. These are all signposts, right, like all these strong feelings that we have, they're just so important. You know, like, we can't go around with toxic positivity all the time. I mean, I'm definitely joy. I mean, I definitely identify with her. But my my disgust used to come with either myself in that I couldn't move people with my positivity. So that would frustrate me, like, but I'm positive. So everything's, you know, it's, it's it's so fascinating.

Lorien McKenna: 16:50

I think it's so interesting what you're talking about, because I sort of lean into my cynicism. And then people who are joyful. I'm like, What seems really suspicious to me. So happy. Let me tell you the truth about the world. I have stopped doing that. And right now I'm working on a project that really is about joy, and hope and love. And so it's this shift for me about telling the story that is like, Oh, this can be all joy and hope and love and kindness, compassion, and that's okay. Right, that I can sort of live in that. And I'm really excited about it. And I'm really proud of it. And it's helping to shift some of that cynicism. off for now, we'll see talk to me again, in a couple of months.

Meg LeFauve: 17:37

You know, feeling joyful is a very vulnerable thing to do. That's right. We all think, Oh, I want to be happy, I want to be happy, I want to be happy not realizing that that true happiness, ie joyfulness versus you know, quote unquote, happy but joyfulness is a very vulnerable experience. And it's something I've been doing research on. And it's, it takes bravery to be truly joyful, That, to me spreads in the world in a beautiful way, if you can be brave enough to be joyful,

Lorien McKenna: 18:05

I think it's the hope piece, right, the way this project is constructed, is that it is about giving tools for how to have hope, and to believe in yourself and to believe that you don't have to earn love, right? So I get to sort of pass this on. And, you know, investigate my own, which has helped me be able to name that Oh, because I kept talking about this is a project about giving kids the tools to believe that they don't have to earn love. And then I was like, Oh, wait a minute, why do I feel so passionately about that? And then I'm like, Oh, no, there is my problem, right? Which I, which I sort of put under the umbrella of imposter syndrome, right? It's easy to stack so much under imposter syndrome, without getting too specific about what it is under there. And so it was like, Oh, it's earning love. I believe I have to earn love, right. So it's fun to get to play in this hopeful space, which feels vulnerable and a little dangerous. But I'm so glad I have the ability to do this. So I'm very proud of this project.

Lisa Hopkins: 19:10

That's so exciting. PS you look joyful when you're talking about it.

Lorien McKenna: 19:15

I usually always look joyful. That is my great gift is that I can say really terrible things but have like a smile. I know.

Lisa Hopkins: 19:28

I don't mean that you look like cuz you're smiling, joyful?

Lorien McKenna: 19:31

No. Oh, it's different. I see. You're calling

Lisa Hopkins: 19:37

But also like in your defense, with that reaction on me out. is that we need to get way more granular with the words we use. Like joy to you is different than joy to me, which is

Meg LeFauve: 19:45

Right. different than joy to Meg or all our listeners and how you define

Lorien McKenna: 19:48

I think what's so interesting about that is, joy is personal and that vulnerability that you're speaking to is absolutely it's it's personal. I mean, I wrote this whole piece about courage, I mean, courage, to have the courage to not show that you've been courageous or to be courageous about something that is, is important to you that maybe doesn't seem like to anyone else, but you know, if you know,I've been thinking a lot about, you know, I have you listen, that you know the knowing, and to not have to share that or show that as a badge of honor or courage is to go god you know, really felt horrible doing it and then not telling anybody. And and living with yourself. And to me, again is my, you know my definition, opportunity to go into an office space right now, like leave my house. And what I'm really struggling with is this idea that I will be observed once again, that I don't get to control it in the little zoom box anymore, that I will be fully physically observed. And what that means from just a physical place. But also like to that point, the holistic place, like so much of what I've been doing my whole life is about getting acknowledgment. Right, trying to get that, which is what you're talking about, right? Like I did this thing, please see me please see that I did this thing we want so desperately to be seen. So I've been thinking a lot about that the sort of the power of allowing yourself to be observed and what that means, I don't know the answers, I've just been thinking about it.

Meg LeFauve: 21:23

I do find though, as, as I age, I care less about how other people see me, there's a claiming of it, I think, partly partially, that's moving out of the stage of so much of your value being how attractive you are to other people. And there's a loss, and the sadness and passing out of that. But there's also a great gift. I'm not saying I don't want to, I don't want to age beautifully, of course I do. I, I love my hair and my body and my like, and I'm still gonna dye my hair. But I'm just, I don't want that to be my centering. anymore, I want my centering to be what I have to give. And you can say I want that. Or you can say I don't. But whether you don't want, if you don't want, it has nothing to do with what I'm giving you your idea, or what I'm offering, or what I have the right now, at this moment in time, I have this much to give and no more. All of that is okay. All of that is what you are actually that's called maturity to me. Like, I feel like I'm just starting at this age to mature into a mature adult females perspective.

Lisa Hopkins: 22:30

I hear you, I really do. It's really I mean, except you're talking about self acceptance really, ultimately. And to sort of just say, I'm just tired of trying to live up to It's tiring.

Meg LeFauve: 22:40

I mean, like, so funny, because I hear self acceptance, and I still get a little quiver. And I'm like, well, what's that about? Why am I delivering over those words, if we're just talking about getting specific, like me, it's about self celebration, or, like how cool we are like, I can look at lorien I can look at my sister Beth, I can look at my friend, Annie, I can look at all these amazing women around me. And I just see these incredible, light, powerful beings like I just they're just blasting power, right. And yet, every person I know still, at some time will speak so small about themselves do ya know what I mean? And it's a very discongruous experience sometimes, right? I accept myself. But it's more than that. It's about celebrating yourself. It's about being here with purpose. It's about being here to give something it's about being here to start a ripple. Do you know what I mean? like it's an active, it's an active experience that I want to start putting into the world versus a kind of like self acceptance closed down turtle thing? I don't know. Does that make sense?

Lisa Hopkins: 23:43

That's cool. Yeah, I appreciate the clarification. I see it the way you do. I'm absolutely 100% on board with what you just described, it was it was beautifully described. But I do understand what you mean, it's not a silo, it's not sort of a go off on a mountain and get to know yourself to kind of moment, it's actually just, you know, be yourself share, share it, energize it, feel it, let it in, it's reciprocal, too, right. I mean, it's like you said, it's sort of the ripple effect.

Meg LeFauve: 24:07

How you know yourself is how you're interacting and the participation you're having with the universe in the world and bringing and what you're..

Lorien McKenna: 24:14

I think adding to that what you touched upon is having friends to and not to get acknowledgement from but to do that thing you said, which is reflect you back to you in a different way, whether that's your family or coach or a community. Having that is so important. It is the thing I need all the time, right? I can say here, I'm feeling vulnerable about this. And then I get different kinds of responses. Like, yes, that sucks, or have you tried this, or, you know, this is how I see you, you know, being specific about what you need in that vulnerable moment. And then getting it back from different people is just for me, I don't want to be too hyperbolic about it. But life saving, I don't know how not to be in a community. It's so important for me to have be able to call Meg and say I got this amazing compliment. I'm devastated and for her to reflect back a different way to look at that or, you know, hey, you're you're actually you've moved past that. Let's look at it in a different way.

Meg LeFauve: 25:11

So what's so beautiful is that you are brave enough or self aware enough to say, Hey, this is what I need. It sounds hyperbolic but it's life saving to me. I need community and then because of your ability to be with that, accept it, and it now gives purpose, you've created community lorien. It is that your need, therefore has created this thing in the world that's moving and giving so much to other people. Right? So somehow our rejection of our own needs of our own inner grumbly, gritty stuff, because it's not appropriate. It's not wanted, it's whatever voice in your head is telling you. But your your impact in the world is sitting inside that need. Like, it's interesting that that need you feel is also your superpower.

Lorien McKenna: 26:00

I can take that compliment because I see what's happening in the communities, right, I see that I am a community builder, because I see that the effort I put into it is affecting people in such a positive way. I have to figure this out. This is holding me back and really just kind of bummer out way. Like I'm tired of telling this joke. I can't take a compliment, right? I'm tired of I'm tired of that being part of my narrative.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:26

First of all, let's celebrate you because you, you were able to acknowledge that you received something from Meg.

Lorien McKenna: 26:32

Stop complimenting me!

Lisa Hopkins: 26:35

Actually, I'm not.

Lorien McKenna: 26:37

That's good.

Lisa Hopkins: 26:38

That's a fact! The fact is that you received it You said it. Yeah, I'm not. That's not my perception. You said to us, that I'm able to accept that. And then you went on to explain why. And we're allowed to celebrate you, whether you or not, that's our choice. So what would it look like if to you because it's different to you? What would accepting a compliment look like to you?

Lorien McKenna: 27:04

I think that's a really good question. Because I don't know. I think I would have to work on the world and myself in that world when that was true. Right? Like, just like I work on a TV show, just like I work on building characters and the world that they're in and their transformation. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. I will have to make a Pinterest board and see what that looks and feels like, like, what colors are there? Who's around me? Yeah, I don't think I've ever thought about that. Because I'm, I'm in this sort of negation phase. Right? I can't do it. I don't do it. That's not my identity. So I don't know who am I, if I take a compliment,

Meg LeFauve: 27:47

I'm thinking, How do I take a compliment? And I definitely used to be super uncomfortable about it felt very dangerous, like, okay, but what's the other shoe gonna drop? You know, that that kind of thing, that survival instinct, oddly came up. For me, usually people's compliments about themselves and something that they've been touched by. Right, that has moved them. So you know, when people walk up and talk about inside out, and my son is nonverbal, and now he can, I can know what his emotions are, because he can pick up the figures and talk to me about it. And you're a genius. And you wrote this, and I'm just like, Oh, my God, like, thank you. I actually, thank you. Because that was hard that to write that and do that movie that as you know, lorien like that was fucking hard. So yeah, thanks. And it's a, it's a connecting moment. A compliment is often a connecting moment. And I'm sure there's some that I would not take, but still, but there is a way to see it as when it's a connection versus a vulnerable kind of the next shoe is gonna drop.

Lorien McKenna: 28:46

I can look at it that way as that compliment is someone else's experience that I've sort of helped bring about, like, I don't have to feel ownership of their response to me in some way. Right? You get to own that. Your response to me and your experience of something I've put out in the world is yours. So I can live with it that way, rather than something I have to take into my body. Like I don't have to take another person in there with me. I can just be like, Oh, I'm glad that you know, I think I think that's what it is. I like a specificity like my son can now communicate with me rather than just like, I'm a huge fan of your podcast, like that one always feels like ooh, I don't know why.

Lisa Hopkins: 29:27

No, actually, that makes a lot of sense, because people give feedback very freely and often without a lot of thought. So if someone came to you and said what I like about your podcast is dot dot dot i bet you that you would probably feel a little more connected and therefore a little more open to receive

Lorien McKenna: 29:48

Yeah because that's that's a conversation just like criticism like even notes feedback on a project it's well this bumped for me Okay, well what bumped? Let's get into that. Let's get to specifics. Right You can I can easily dismantle and dig into feedback on a project that I need to solve a problem and but like big wide compliments, feel like I don't feel like I have the right to be like, tell me what you really like about it. Right? Like, like it's just

Lisa Hopkins: 30:16

No, it's hard! And we've been taught we've been taught. You know, since we're little kids too, when someone says something You say thank you. Like, like, we just do it by rote, right? So if someone says something nice you go, thank you. If someone says doesn't say something nice, then you ignore them. Right? You know, I say get curious all around and everybody benefits.

Unknown: 30:37

So I don't. Because

Meg LeFauve: 30:39

When when I got a chance to meet Meryl Streep, and by meet, I mean she was walking by and this PR person I was with I was like, Oh my god, can I please meet Meryl Streep and she like was like,"Meryl!" and she literally turned around for two seconds. So this is me, right? This isn't one of these Academy run moments. And I was I literally..all I could say was I'm such a huge fan like I that's all I could say, I have a wealth of reasons for that tiny statement, right? Yeah, I have images, I have moments, I have so many things. And that's all I could get out. That was your experience. At that moment. The sum of your experience of knowing her work was that. I'm such a fan of your work!

Lisa Hopkins: 31:19

We always have to take into consideration context, right? And so so when things like that happen? Yeah, I'm sure that in retrospect, you're going shit, Why could I not have done I was? I didn't say any of it? Well, because in the context of things, you knew that she only had a moment. And you chose you did the best, you know, we really believe as you do, we do the very best we can. And at any given moment we do that, in retrospect, you might go Jeez, I should have said something that would have like, hooked her. So she would have stayed longer. But you were there, it happened suddenly, and something just came out of your mouth. But you have all this contextual information, because you're a smart human being. And you're intuitive that she doesn't have time to have the conversation that you want to have with her. So you were only really able to give her one offering, right? I'm sure that you would have had you. She said, Do you want to sit down and talk...

Meg LeFauve: 32:11

I would've gone blbbbbbl ..

Lisa Hopkins: 32:13

Do you know what I mean?

Meg LeFauve: 32:14

But what's interesting is I think we have these rules in our heads of, well, if I had been clever enough, then sure this would have happened. That happened. And then she would have wanted to act in a movie that I was writing bla bla bla bla bla, let's leave it like that. It just goes down like dominoes. And yeah, I had an experience, which I won't get into with JJ Abrams, when I was just starting writing that was deeply impactful to my life in terms of he did actually stop and talk to me and encouraged me and Baba and he I got it I that thing happened. When I saw him five years later, he has no memory of this at all. Like it didn't even like he literally none. Because why would he? By the way? Why would he? Why would he be mad everything I said, like suddenly had this lasting impression. So that later you know you guys were making up stories all the time, we can make up the good ones. And we can make bad ones, right? We can make the good ones. And if I only would have been this great stuff would have happened.

Lisa Hopkins: 33:09

Oh, the stories we tell ourselves. And so guys, what what is your defin tion of living? In the momen? I've got to ask you that! Meg, do you want to go first

Meg LeFauve: 33:19

I was just thinking this today how much I live in the future. I'm always dreaming forward. I'm a writer, my superpower is dreaming. And that dreaming is my work and the stories but I do it with my future too. Right? Like, where do I want to go? Where do I want to be? You know this at this age? Where do I want to be in 10 years, both for myself as a passionate creative artist, as a community builder, which I have found this great partner in Lorien. And doing as a parent of a special needs child. I do dream a lot into the future. But I do also need to find ways to stay present. Like I wish I could meditate. I really do. But until I have given up my job, I don't see how I will ever have the discipline to do it. How do I stay present I I take a lot of walks. And I find the best way for me to do it is to look at the sky. But you know, I will be honest, it's tiring. It's very tiring because I feel like I'm often asked as a mother and a woman to stay present to hold the space for other people. So I'm using all of my ability to stay present for others, which is a gift. And it is my It is my life's purpose. I believe I come from a long line of teachers. I believe this is part of the reason I'm in the I'm here manifesting right now is to create this space for others. But I have to be super careful. Because I'm not doing it for myself. That's where I'm trying to stay present.

Lisa Hopkins: 34:59

No, absolutely. Lorien what about you?

Lorien McKenna: 35:03

For me, it's about connecting my head and my body. Hmm. Interesting. Because I can just live in my head all the time, right like and when I'm in my head, I can pay attention and that like it's tiring. But you know, right now I'm paying attention to this. I'm going to get off this call. I'm going to go pay attention to something else and hopefully Do not get distracted by a bunch of other things while I'm focusing on that next thing. Yeah. And I, I struggle with this, like, I don't know how to meditate. I don't know that it's for me necessarily. But I responded to what you said about needing to, which is what I was talking about earlier about this idea that we're always expected to do more, fix yourself, you're not enough, you need to do this, right. That's the part where I feel like, I don't always want to be churning on the processing of myself. Sometimes I just want to get to the end of the day and be like, oh, today, that's it. I don't want to dig into the muck and the gunk - I just want to get there and be. Maybe that's how I live in the moment is that I can just get to a place where I'm like, brain stop beating me up.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:12

Yeah, fair enough. All right. Before you go, we play this game called what makes you and then you just say kind of what comes to mind? What makes you hungry?

Lorien McKenna: 36:21

Real hunger?

Lisa Hopkins: 36:22

Whatever comes to mind.

Lorien McKenna: 36:24

Stress, Stress makes me hungry.

Meg LeFauve: 36:27

I would say stress makes me hungry in terms of that kind of hunger that I isn't the most positive and then the positive hunger would be curiosity.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:36

What makes you sad?

Lorien McKenna: 36:38

My husband's health.

Meg LeFauve: 36:40

What makes me sad is um, overwhelm I find when I get overwhelmed, I'm actually getting I get sad. it's it's a it's a good signpost for me.

Lisa Hopkins: 36:49

What makes you angry?

Lorien McKenna: 36:53

Not being heard.

Meg LeFauve: 36:55

What makes me angry... ignorance.

Lorien McKenna: 36:57

And Lorien What, what frightens you? Not being enough?

Meg LeFauve: 37:05

What frightens me is not being certain of my special needs son's future.

Lisa Hopkins: 37:10

And what brings you joy? Lorien.

Lorien McKenna: 37:12

Right. Now what brings me joy is working on this project. I'm working on getting to go and be with a roomful of writers and just coming up with ideas and sort of being in that creative turn with other people.

Meg LeFauve: 37:24

And for me, it's friendship. You know, when I hadn't talked to Lorien, in a little while and hearing her voice this morning, I was like, just had a spark of joy. It's like, Oh, my God. There she is.

Lisa Hopkins: 37:33

Oh, that's lovely. And finally, what are the top three things that happened so far? today? Today? Yeah, today.

Meg LeFauve: 37:41

We my son and I went to California Pizza Kitchen and got our free Dodger pizza because the Dodgers won last night. I did the laundry. And I did some writing that I did this morning.

Lisa Hopkins: 37:51

Great. What about you, Lorien?

Lorien McKenna: 37:54

We got really positive network feedback on some content we delivered. My daughter and my husband made a three minute horror movie and showed it to me and yeah, getting to talk to Meg this morning.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:09

Beautiful. Ladies, I cannot thank you enough for joining me today. It's been a distinct pleasure. really unbelievable.

Lorien McKenna: 38:16

Thank you.

Meg LeFauve: 38:17

Thank you for the work that you're doing.

Lisa Hopkins: 38:19

I really appreciate you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. I've been speaking today with Meg LeFauve and Lorien and McKenna. Thanks for listening, stay safe and healthy everyone and remember to live in the moment. In music stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended and rhythmic unison, supporting the soloist to express their individuality. In the moment, I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm. Until next time, I'm Lisa Hopkins. Thanks for listening